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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think parental leave should be 50/50?

179 replies

MunaZaldrizoti · 30/04/2019 13:19

A system of mandatory use it or lose it. No one "gifting" anything to anyone, just equal entitlement...

OP posts:
user1471426142 · 30/04/2019 17:03

Gahh missing words in my post above. I meant to say lots of employers don’t pay anymore than statutory for paternity leave. Requiring 2 weeks paid at full pay would be a good start.

Cookit · 30/04/2019 17:09

What would piss me off is that the women would do the really difficult first six months, full of hormones and bleeding and bruising and sleeplessness and then the blokes would swan in for the lovely second six months of milestones and smiles and says out in the bloody park.
Yes this too!
6-12 months I was still being woken up a gazillion times a night but it was suddenly more manageable on top of finally feeling back to myself and time with the baby being easier, less worrying and more rewarding generally. I needed that 6 months to make up for the first 6 months.
So yeah the woman would get the no sleep, establishing breastfeeding, pain, Hemorrhoids... the man would get the bit where the baby starts to be fun and crawl and walk and say a few words.

ScreamScreamIceCream · 30/04/2019 17:12

@BlueSkiesLies your policy is ageist. Some of us have had children over 40 both male and female.

Incidentally in my social circle men either share leave or have a flexible employer so take time out with their child before they are 1. The result is the men have no issue taking care of their child when they are older.

What I would like is an extra 3 months paid exclusively for the second parent on a use it or lose it basis. That way the family get a year of paid parental leave.

NewAccount270219 · 30/04/2019 17:14

What would piss me off is that the women would do the really difficult first six months, full of hormones and bleeding and bruising and sleeplessness and then the blokes would swan in for the lovely second six months of milestones and smiles and says out in the bloody park.

We swapped at six months and this isn't how I saw it. There were swings and roundabouts of both bits - I was glad to be out of most of the tedious and messy slog of weaning, for instance! He was also more portable during my bit - he started only napping well at home around six months so DH was a lot more restricted than I had been.

More fundamentally, this seems like such an antagonistic way of seeing it, and doesn't say great things about the relationship. 'I don't want you to have time with our child in case you're having a nicer time than me' is quite an ugly attitude.

NewAccount270219 · 30/04/2019 17:17

It was me that said this. I don’t think it is for all men but would have been for my husband.

How do you know - has someone else in his company done it and suffered? People often seem to overestimate the consequences for men. DH was worried that his work would be very disapproving and negative about it. They actually promoted him while he was on leave.

icannotremember · 30/04/2019 17:20

I would not have been ready to return to full time work and try to pump enough milk to keep the baby going 4-5 months after the birth, so it would have been a no from me.

Outlawjr · 30/04/2019 17:26

It was me that said this. I don’t think it is for all men but would have been for my husband

Would it still be career suicide if all the fathers in your husband's workplace did though? Or would it just become the norm?

Silversky70 · 30/04/2019 17:26

You're all talking about maternity/paternity leave, the op is about parental leave. All parents are entitled to this and it must be taken in blocks of a week and is unpaid.

Dungeondragon15 · 30/04/2019 17:27

What I would like is an extra 3 months paid exclusively for the second parent on a use it or lose it basis. That way the family get a year of paid parental leave.

Yes, I think that would probably be the only way to do this. They perhaps missed an opportunity when the extended maternity leave from six months. It's interesting to note that some people now say that they could possibly go back to work 5 months after the birth when that is what everyone used to do.

NewAccount270219 · 30/04/2019 17:27

You're all talking about maternity/paternity leave, the op is about parental leave. All parents are entitled to this and it must be taken in blocks of a week and is unpaid.

She's talking about shared parental leave, which is when you share the mother's maternity leave and is different from the parental leave you're describing.

kaytee87 · 30/04/2019 17:28

It's interesting to note that some people now say that they could possibly go back to work 5 months after the birth when that is what everyone used to do*

I've not checked the figures, but didn't less women go back then?

user1471426142 · 30/04/2019 17:28

NewAccount270219 I know because of the general attitudes within the sector, the level of seniority, nature of job etc, clauses that he isn’t able to take more than 2 weeks of annual leave at a time. It’s nothing to do with the fact he’s male- it’s the combo of other factors. Some sectors and some jobs are easier than others. I’ve got lots of friends in the civil service that have made it work well.

Houseonahill · 30/04/2019 17:31

Of my small sample of friends no one took shared leave because the woman WANTED to stay at home with the baby, she didn't want to share her maternity leave. I hate this attitude that women that don't share leave are doing a disservice to womankind. Stop trying to take away women's choice because it's not the choice you would make.

Dungeondragon15 · 30/04/2019 17:34

I've not checked the figures, but didn't less women go back then?

I haven't checked the figures but we're only talking about 15 years ago so I don't think there has been much change in the women going back after maternity leave. I think that there has been a rise in the numbers working with 3 and 4 years due to the free childcare.

NewAccount270219 · 30/04/2019 17:35

Of my small sample of friends no one took shared leave because the woman WANTED to stay at home with the baby, she didn't want to share her maternity leave.

What did the men want? Or did it not matter?

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 30/04/2019 17:38

House agreed. We need to stop pretending that the role of mothers and fathers is the same when a baby is born. Shared parental leave doesn't stop women's careers from faltering should they take a full year off (or whatever), because women being at home isn't valued. That's without the fact that women also tend to end up being the carers for elderly relatives.

End result - a society full of overworked men and under-employed women.

We need to tear down the workplace and rebuild it with the understanding that men and women are different but equal as workers, and a good worker isn't the one who acts most like a man, ie with as few domestic responsibilities as possible.

Outlawjr · 30/04/2019 17:40

What did the men want? Or did it not matter?

And then if they split later on she'll no doubt want the selfless career/earning potential sacrifice she made to be taken in to account when it comes to the financial settlement.

Houseonahill · 30/04/2019 17:41

What did the men want? Or did it not matter?

None of the men have ever mentioned having a problem with it (although I can't say I ever asked them outright) and no one has ever mentioned any animosity about it within their relationship so I assume they were happy with the arrangement.

ScreamScreamIceCream · 30/04/2019 17:41

My male friends and acquaintances who took leave and/or did flexible working were used as the poster boys in their companies for doing it. They work in different companies of various sizes and are in different sectors.

One was pushed out by a manager for doing it and when the directors found out they used it as an excuse to sack the manager.

When the same happens to a women nothing happens to the manager. In fact they are implicitly backed up especially in SMEs, which is what my friend worked for. This is why I want 3 months additional for the 2nd parent solely.

DappledThings · 30/04/2019 17:45

Of my small sample of friends no one took shared leave because the woman WANTED to stay at home with the baby, she didn't want to share her maternity leave

This was certainly true in our case. DH asked me when I was pregnant first time if I wanted to share any leave. I said no, I wanted the full year but would obviously share some if he wanted to. His attitude was that it was my hard-earned leave to choose to give up or not and it was therefore my choice.

As it happened both my DC were still breastfeeding twice a day in the day at 10 months and I would have hated having to give that up early to go back to work. Expressing wouldn't have felt worth the hassle and DC2 never took a bottle anyway.

CountFosco · 30/04/2019 17:46

I think if the law was changed so men and women had to be paid equally for parental leave things might improve (so if a company offers 6 months full pay to mothers it has to offer the same for fathers). Although since there's gender segregation in many jobs maybe not. I do think men need to be pushed into caring roles and so we do need to incentivise them to take parental leave. But there needs to be more flexibility around PT working as well to make it work.

DH didn't take shared parental leave, however he has always worked PT since the DC were born. When our youngest was born his discussion at work was about balancing him changing to working FT while I was on maternity leave for a year vs him taking 6 months off on shared parental leave. So even in a family committed to sharing work and family responsibilities (if anything DH now does most of it) it made more sense not to share parental leave.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 30/04/2019 17:46

I think that when men bear and birth a baby, then they get equal say.

Again - men's and women's roles in pregnancy and childbirth are not the same and are not equal.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 30/04/2019 17:46

I think it's a good idea. We want equality and this fits that.

I suspect many women won't gift any of the time and dads may want it's and can't. It's also more likely to improve the men vs woman divide in the workplace.

If the man is the higher earner, people could save beforehand or make sure they are on an equal footing wage wise if they don't want to take a financial hit on maternity leave.

Judges seem to be granting more and more shared custody agreements so both parents being heavily involved from the start and sharing the leave is a good thing.

Prequelle · 30/04/2019 17:50

So many people do not understand the concept of equality.

givemesteel · 30/04/2019 17:51

I think it's pretty clear most people don't want to be forced in to doing something they don't want to do and the system is fine as it is.

I also wouldn't support paying more tax so men can have longer off as well. Raising a baby is tough but it's not a two person job ffs. If a couple want two people off at the same time, they fund it, not the state.

I think the main change needs to be that emoyers are forced to be more amenable in offering flexible working, whether that is part time or flexible hours. Think employers should have to publish on their website what their maternity benefits and what their post baby flexible work package is and everyone with kids under a certain age is entitled to it.

The key issue is not whether dad's take up shared leave (most mums don't want them to), it's the fact that women find it difficult to re-enter the workplace after they gave a baby, because they can't / don't want to necessarily work full time.