Breastfeeding: Only Middle Class Now?

[redbedheadd]

Was debating this with my DP - he is of the belief that breastfeeding is a mainly a middle class thing. I'm not sure if I agree, wanted other opinions.

We live in a very MC/posh area of London and I'd say 90% of mums at my Baby classes BF. This is his evidence.

We both grew up in working class environments - him in a council estate in London where no-one breastfed and me in a Northern town where is was normal to BF.

So.... thoughts?

crispy I think babies in their own bed is a deeply personal preference.

People always ask stupid questions about babies lol. Is he a good baby, are they a boy/girl when it's blatantly obvious etc. I think people just don't know what to say

I’m from a first generation middle class background - Dad grammar school/university grant success story from wc family in Lancashire, Mum from Irish Catholic wc family in Lincoln council estate. Dad’s second marriage then to step mum; she was first generation middle class (her father a wc boy done well in business) from Sussex.

Both mum and stepmum bottle fed the four of us (two each) from birth. Apparently my maternal grandma bottle fed all 12 of hers from birth, despite living in poverty.

I am v middle class and live in an extremely middle class area, where I am openly judged at every baby group for FF (I actually had no choice, due to PCOS).

My full sister now lives in Lincolnshire in a v middle class village, yet all of her friends have FF from birth, and they actually have a milk kitchen new mothers can freely access at the county hospital. She intends to FF when they start trying next year, as she has the biggest boobs I’ve ever seen and is concerned about suffocating the baby!

My youngest sister (half sister, by my stepmum) lives in London now, and fully intends to breastfeed when she has a baby.

I’ve not the first clue what any of this says about FF vs BF, other than that it’s a multi-layered issue and a very personal decision!

Cosleeping doesn't really work for us either. Or hasn't so far anyway. We both seem to sleep better apart! I am not someone who enjoys being close to other people when sleeping (hence why we bought a super king ) I also like being wrapped in my duvet and being able to toss and turn how I like But then she isn't a baby who sleeps on people either. She rarely falls asleep on my chest or in my arms, only ever on my boob and will usually wake if she delatches and look at me accusingly. Whereas she will sleep the night away in her cot quite happily.

I don't really feel guilty for it though. She's a great sleeper, I get a good night's sleep, and she's only at the side of the bed if I want a cuddle It's all about individuals and what works best.

People always ask stupid questions about babies lol

Isn’t this the truth! FIL’s gf was my favourite - when my milk came in on day 3 and my breasts were like melons she turned to DH and said “hope you’re making the most of those” 😳😑

I had both dc in a sidecar cot but never properly 'co slept' successfully with either - they just didn't seem to take to it. Were in own beds at about 7-8 months. Happy now I don't have littluns climbing in bed with me though!

crispy

Lmao what a stupid comment! As if its not uncomfortable.

Tmi but when I was breastfeeding my boobs would spurt milk every time we'd try to have sex, it was utterly off putting and ensured neither of us could enjoy them! 😂

Happy now I don't have littluns climbing in bed with me though!

I never coslept and somehow my 3 year old still likes to dive in my bed whenever he can! Luckily he's very cuddly and I think it's cute.

I don't know why people are so determined to 'prove' that either BFing or FFing are more convenient - it massively depends on the baby, and also at different ages for the same baby.

THIS. And it's so stupid anyway. I chose BFing because the evidence suggested it was (just a little bit, not much) better and because I like the idea, not because of "convenience." If I liked convenience, I wouldn't have had a child in the first place.

People who claim airily that they made particular parenting choices because "I'm just soooooo lazy....!" irritate the hell out of me. It's almost never true.

"This study indiates that past 6 months, bf/ff makes no difference in the number of times a baby wakes: www.swansea.ac.uk/press-office/news-archive/2015/sleeplessnightsnewresearchfindsbabiesshouldwakeatnight.php?fbclid=IwAR0NXy9K1hubEei_ifWMRrrqI0eWjMWEum-8axmR_-Yzlaa4SuZcOj8sz_0 "

That's just a single small study, though. Most studies find that FF babies sleep better, on average. This blog post gives a review of the large amounts of evidence on this front. It's a very good blog in general, by the way--lots of very interesting articles!

expectingscience.com/2014/09/09/lets-face-it-formula-fed-babies-sleep-better-from-their-parents-perspective/

Technically speaking FF babies do not sleep longer stretches, because actually all babies (and adults) stir between sleep cycles--this happens in people of all ages regardless of feeding method. The question is "is the baby able to settle itself back to sleep afterwards without parental intervention?" FF babies on average do this sooner, probably because of the way FFing works. You can see how much they have had, and because of the risk of overfeeding you cannot just keep getting out bottle after bottle all night. So you end up "pushing" the baby to settle without a feed. Sometimes they get attached to other sleep aids instead, like dummies, but it seems these are less tempting than milk.When I hear about a toddler who is up all night long, they are usually BF!

You can see how much they have had, and because of the risk of overfeeding you cannot just keep getting out bottle after bottle all night.

Actually, most people demand feed ff babies now.

@crispy she said WHAT??? On day 3?? If my DP had even looked sideways at me on day three I'd have been wearing his bollocks for earrings..
What a bizarre and borderline creepy thing to say!

Feeds into my point though about how keen people are to re-sex the postnatal body!

Isla - it wasn't the ' social norm' to bottle feed in the 70s. Maybe in your house

How can you possibly have a social norm in one person’s house ?

I think it's about education which probably links to class

I don't know whether I am working class or middle class really

I breastfed both my DC and fundamentally believe it's the right thing to do.

Most of my friends from varying ages etc did too. I notice amongst the nursery mums who didn't and those I know from school who state they didn't, the majority are less well educated

@redstapler do you think that would be different if formula wasn't free for these mothers? (I assume it is from the fact you say it's a deprived area)

I also wonder if there are class/cultural/education level trends with families who see a baby as a kind of collective property that the members of the extended family are entitled to time with compared with families where babies under one having sleepovers isn't a thing and mum is seen as the primary caregiver .

But its loads cheaper to breastfeed!? That's the main reason I kept on with it... because we had no money when our son was born and formula is expensive both to buy and get all the equipment for.. I am white and arguably had a middle class upbringing... but I was working and living in a very working class area with working class friends... all of whom who had babies around that time also at least attempted to breastfeed... not because of pressure or hippy/nct notions but because of finances!! I didnt even know what the nct was really at that time lol

But I would also just like to say that I had to lie and say I was formula feeding to get off the horrific recovery ward. They kept saying they wanted to see a latch as it was my first baby and I couldn't leave until they had seen one as I said I was breastfeeding. There was so little staff and my son did latch but they missed it and then he slept for ages because the labour had been long and he was exhausted.... I just wanted to go home because there was my whole family there ready to wait on me hand and foot and I could be alone with my baby and get to grips with feeding... but instead they tried to force me to stay on this noisy bright understaffed recovery ward 'to establish breastfeeding' when I'd been awake for three days.
I got my husband to go and buy a carton of formula and I just lied and said I'd given up trying to breastfeed and I was going to formula feed now and then they were perfectly happy and they let me leave!!
I did manage to breastfeed him for a year. But I seriously think if I'd actually stayed on that ward any longer I'd have been put off breastfeeding for life. I remember actually feeling intense anger towards my son because he just fell asleep and didnt latch on front of the nurses so we could leave.... I look back and I'm horrified that my first hours with my son were spent so angry with him and stressed because of the amount of pressure to performance breastfeed.

Oh @Battenburg that's horrible!!

I discharged myself against advice 30 hours after a section because I Just. Could. Not. Stand it. Anymore. Postnatal wards are a special kind of hell. Had to go back for my prescriptions the day after which was a pain as no-one around to put them together for me... but it was worth it to get away from the light, the noise, and the total failure to enforce any kind of rules around visiting hours... the whole ward was constantly overrun with husbands, mums, older children, 4 out of 6 bays watching 4 different programmes on 4 different tvs... I hadn't slept for days, I'd been cut open, breastfeeding was harder than I thought.... I desperately needed what precious little sleep I could get so I walked hobbled out. It's inhuman expecting all those mothers and babies to share a tiny space like that after what can be a very traumatic experience.

Tunnock - I meant how could one person living in one house know what the 'social norm' was. Cos from my memory and knowledge, the 'social norm' was to breastfeed.

from my memory and knowledge, the 'social norm' was to breastfeed.

Rates of breastfeeding even once in the 1970s were between about 25-40%. Rate of breastfeeding ever now is at 80+%.

The social norm in the UK, other than in specific pockets and relatively small social circles, is still to bottlefeed. Only 46% of babies are getting any breastmilk at 6 to 8 weeks.

I guess another question would be if there were social class or other trends in different decades.

The breastfeeding message feels a bit one size fits all to me and I'm not convinced it's the best way. It also seems a bit naive to think everyone would breastfeed if only they had more information on it, some women will still choose not to.

I think the breastfeeding message needs to be more realistic.

One: it will hurt
Two: it will take practice
Three: it is exhausting and your baby might want to feed constantly
Four: you need to learn about your own boobs
Five: it's not always a case of "just express a bottle"

Etc.... it's not about scaring women off but just being realistic that it takes time and it is hard for most women!

Honesty is definitely the best policy, the high initiation rate and low continuing rate does kind of suggest it could be cluster feeding putting people off or making them think they aren't producing enough milk