Breastfeeding: Only Middle Class Now?

[redbedheadd]

Was debating this with my DP - he is of the belief that breastfeeding is a mainly a middle class thing. I'm not sure if I agree, wanted other opinions.

We live in a very MC/posh area of London and I'd say 90% of mums at my Baby classes BF. This is his evidence.

We both grew up in working class environments - him in a council estate in London where no-one breastfed and me in a Northern town where is was normal to BF.

So.... thoughts?

I was born in Scotland in the 70s. I was taken off my mother and kept in hospital nursery for 5 days and only brought to her for occasional visits. I was put on formula without her even being consulted and she didn't question it because you just didn't question medical professionals in those days. When she sees me BF my children now she admits that she is very bitter about having that experience taken from her.

The reason so few believe it is doable is because they see so few women doing it. And the reason so few do is because they don't see it being done.

The unfettered promotion of formula in the 60s and 70s almost killed off breastfeeding in this country; there is a 'lost generation' of mothers who can't support and guide their daughters because they have no experience of bf.

There are also pervasive myths about the 'benefits' of fomula (e.g. ff babies sleep better) and a total lack of acceptance of and pathologising of normal infant feeding and sleeping patterns, so many women think that bf is 'not working' because they have been given a totally unrealistic idea of how a newborn should feed and behave, given erroneous proxies for adequate milk intake to do with baby's sleep, spacing of feeds, level of contentment when awake etc when actually the only useful proxies are weight gain (realistic weight gain, expectations are massively inflated by formula prevalence) and nappy output (again, expectations distorted by formula prevalence, but in the opposite direction, so concerning low output may not be picked up on). Women are constantly given the message that because the transfer of milk from mother to baby cannot be measured, their bodies and the natural function of those bodies cannot be trusted.

Most importantly the life of a new mother now is often totally at odds with the commitment required to establish breastfeeding in the early weeks. Bf can seem impossible when you are under pressure to snap back into a perfect shape, resume sexual activity, take 'me time', share direct babycare 'equally' with dad, resume sole care for any older children, let baby 'bond' (i.e. spend time alone with) other close family, all ASAP whether that is what the mother wants or not. It is what she is told she SHOULD want - 'your body back/your life back' is the oft quoted goal. Which is great for mothers who want that, and now have the option of formula feeding to liberate them to do so. Crap for mums who just want to hibernate with their newborn and learn the challenging but innate skill of breastfeeding together, being constantly bombarded with the message that what they want is wrong, difficult, obstructive, selfish, lazy, boring.

name just a question, you say it's a myth ff babies sleep better but then go on to say normal feeding patterns are pathologised meaning bf mothers infants who feed frequently are led to believe it's not normal I presume, so how can you say ff babies don't sleep better but then imply bf babies feed more frequently? Sorry if that's a silly question but it seems a contradiction?

Hi Teens - totally reasonable question as it does seem contradictory the way I have put it

This study indiates that past 6 months, bf/ff makes no difference in the number of times a baby wakes: www.swansea.ac.uk/press-office/news-archive/2015/sleeplessnightsnewresearchfindsbabiesshouldwakeatnight.php?fbclid=IwAR0NXy9K1hubEei_ifWMRrrqI0eWjMWEum-8axmR_-Yzlaa4SuZcOj8sz_0

Not sure about pre 6 months - anecdotally the ff babies I know did tend to wake less - however, they also tended to stay awake for longer when they did wake as if it wasn't time to feed there was no straightforward way to restore them to sleep. But to be fair young babies just wake up a lot and in most cases this is a good thing - these wakings can be protective for the immature respiratory system which can sometimes experience apnoeas (read a study on this but don't have to hand, will look it out) - I believe that is one of the speculations for why ff is a risk factor for SIDS, as it requires more energy to digest and may therefore cause deeper sleep (not necessarily longer sleep!).

Moreover I don't know about you but I wake up several times a night - usually because I need to change position, go for a pee, or have a sip of water, which I can do myself without seeking help so nobody ever knows I was awake (even me half the time!) A tiny baby can't do these things for themself so they alert their parents - so expecting a tiny baby to be silent for up to 12 hours at a time when it can't so much as roll itself over is not really reasonable imo.

Many years ago the poorer classes breast fed because it was free

The middle classes had a wet nurse which was probably a mother from the poorer classes who had perhaps lost her baby and still had plenty of milk

Good info Teen.

My first was a very frequent feeder and was on me non stop from 6pm - midnight for first 3 months. People used to say 'she's not getting enough/you' re starving her' etc and nearly convinced me to give up.

Second time round I was totally prepared for this and got myself a comfy chair and a load of box sets and just enjoyed it. Having that knowledge & experience makes such a huge difference and I don't know why midwives don't prepare new mothers better for this.

Sorry I meant good in for from Names they are a changing. Not Teens. No offence teens!

:signedupjustforthis

I know!! first I heard about cluster feeding was Googling frantically from a prone position on the sofa wondering what the hell was wrong with my baby that they wouldn't get the eff off my front, afraid she was going to suck my nipple all the way off! I went to bloody NCT, they could have warned me! I think sometimes even those promoting bf don't give the full picture because they're worried about frightening folk off.

I have always gone for full disclosure mode when offering advice to friends and family - I like to think the fact I kept it up for 2 years kind of counteracts the endless litany of "and sometimes what happens is..."

Names your posts are brilliant, well written and very informative.

One thing I do tend to disagree with though - and it is just my opinion - is that it is a midwife’s fault (or other HCP) that a new mother doesn’t know what to expect when breastfeeding. I think there has to be a degree of research done by the parents, surely? You can research the best car seat to buy, which sling to get, how to change a nappy, what to pack for a hospital bag, what to buy etc etc and many of us do research these things when expecting... why don’t people also research the basics of feeding as well?
I was on google constantly when pregnancy researching all of the above and was fairly well prepared for cluster feeding and how hungry/thirsty I would be etc.

This may be a very unpopular opinion and I certainly don’t want to offend anyone. Just wanted to point out that the information is there for all of they choose to look for it.

why don’t people also research the basics of feeding as well?

agree, but to an extent people who pay for NCT classes or ask HCPs probably think that they are doing some research - plenty have said on here that NCT classes didn't prepare them for the realities even though they are supposed to be very pro BF.
And

I agree Ethel but I think if the midwife just said ‘it may hurt at first and they may cluster feed’. That’s literally all I would have needed to hear.

I did NCT, it was shit and they didn’t prepare us. It was very rose tinted glasses. They said something about feeding every 3 hours! I remember calling the midwife unit when DD was newborn asking what was wrong with her because all she did was feed- they laughed and said she’s a normal baby.

If it wasn’t for my friends who had BF telling me it hurts for a week or so and then gets easier I would have given up.

Thanks for that @ethelfleda - I ramble some but I'm passionate!

I do disagree with you though purely because this is a public health crisis (imo) so I'm not that bothered what people 'should' do, more what they in the main WILL do when operating in different environments (i.e. supported or unsupported). And the ability to find and quality assess good information is a skill in itself that not many people have (librarian here so this is another topic on which I get aerated ).

Getting researched evidence on bf is not like shopping for a pram. Not every expectant mother will be educated or time rich enough to undertake research on breastfeeding in a way that includes any assessment of the quality or bias of the source, and because it serves both commercial interests and the personal motivations of many individuals for breastfeeding to fail there is a lot of very, very crap information out there, much of it contradictory. Finding a good source of reliable info off your own back is difficult. The amount of crap on e.g. Babycentre.com is just awful, the amount of google searches on feeding/sleeping etc that just take you to discussions or articles on mum forums (especially those set up or sponsored heavily by formula companies!) is enormous and it is not always obvious what is bullshit and what is not.

Informed post-natal care is critical for breastfeeding. And if a midwife gave you no or shit advice on any other aspect of your postnatal care (e.g. wound management) she'd be considered negligent and be in deep shit.

But midwives and HVs (HVs in particular) spout an amazing amount of shite about breastfeeding, and sabotage many breastfeeding relationships because people OUGHT to be able to trust them to be an accurate source of information on the subject, when they are overwhelmed and vulnerable, but they oftentimes are not.

This is one of the reasons I'm training to be a mother supporter btw - I've been through it andfound out what I needed to know the hard way, I want to be that easy access to evidence point for someone in that position so they don't have to!

Thanks names. I agree 12 hours is unreasonable, all of mine were NICU babies for a variety of reasons so I've never actually had the first few weeks post birth not connected to any monitors so that's interesting. Mine have all slept fairly well in the evening but rubbish in the day (mixed fed to varying degrees, I commented earlier about my first dc being mainly formula fed while my other two being breastfed for longer). I know of one baby who was exclusively breastfed who barely slept, however he's the same at age 3 and his mum weaned at 1, so I doubt it's got much to do with him being breastfed. That's anecdotal though.

The amount of crap on e.g.Babycentre.comis just awful, the amount of google searches on feeding/sleeping etc that just take you to discussions or articles on mum forums (especially those set up or sponsored heavily by formula companies!) is enormous and it is not always obvious what is bullshit and what is not.

This winds me up about pregnancy, childbirth and early parenthood in general. It's hard to find information that is factual and without an agenda. Studies that are unbiased are rare and difficult to access.

I read a book and attendee NCT. None of the following were even mentioned: cluster feeding, milk taking a few days to 'come in', thrush, needing to wear a bra at night so you don't wake up swimming in milk, bottle refusing or how to deal with the barage of family and doctors telling you baby isn't getting enough.

Names
You’re right - I never thought of it like that before - that it’s a public health crisis, that people should be able to trust HCPs to give them correct advice and also your point about it being similar to providing advice on wound care. I stand corrected

Wait... did a disagreement just happen on mn with no ensuing name calling or arguments??

@ethelfleda I think we broke Mumsnet!! [Grin]

No I dont agree , lots of breastfeeding mums locally that are definitely not middle class. I believe every mum has there choice why they opt to bottle or breastfeed, some mums have to go back to work quite quickly, some mums breastfeed for the cost of formula.

I wish I'd been made aware of Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex (D-MER) - not to put me off but to help me realise a factor in me feeling so up and down! When I've talked about it to friends no-one's ever heard of it and yet some have experienced it.

It's a sort of feeling of despair and depression specifically when you're breastfeeding, or just when the milk let-down happens. If you get it, it's really noticeable, not just a part of general feeling shit or PND etc.

d-mer.org/

Oh and when we did NCT bf class... Me and dh were clueless about baby feeding, and when the teacher lady kept talking about 'bottle-feeding' as opposed to breastfeeding we had to ask if that included expressed milk in a bottle, ie we didn't know if she was saying it was the method of delivery that was important (via breast vs bottle) or the actual content (breastmilk v formula). She was v shocked and said no one had ever asked that before...
I think most ppl do refer to 'formula feeding' rather than 'bottle feeding' now but I did feel it assumed a small level of knowledge we didn't have!

I’d agree. I live in a fairly well heeled part of London and all of the mums with the exception of myself bf. I didn’t because I just didn’t fancy it but I was very much the exception to the rule.
I don’t know many non middle class women so have no idea if it’s a middle class phenomenon or not.

I suspect misinformation on cluster feeding could well be a massive factor in people giving up because they think baby isn't getting enough milk. I mean if you dont know about cluster feeding it does look like a desperately hungry baby.

My mum was ‘first generation middle class’ and it was the social norm to bottle feed in the 70s. No idea what her WC mum did.

My sister was a 2000s ‘breast is best’ mother and I followed her example, not caring where I breastfed etc. I had no idea this wasn’t ‘normal’ because she had made it appear so. She is MC though!

I do understand why women give up - my own early experience of BF was fraught, lonely pain. I had next to zero lactation support from my midwives, who had other things to do.