To get cross every time I see a woman say her husband doesn't do any night feeds because "he works"?

[TeenTitans]

I'm in a few mum groups online and I keep seeing this and it's driving me mad. Women who's husband's never do any night feeds because they work and women who think that's perfectly okay. Erm do you not think looking after the kids all day is work? My response is always "so do you!" when I see it. My partner has always helped with the nights because they're his kids as well and it's just as much his job as mine.

I'm not complaining about couples divvying up the work as they wish but the justification. YOU ALSO WORK.

Except I don't think that by doing those things, I am a better parent or mother

You seem to think you are a better person than anyone who dares to do night wakings without assistance from their partner!

We are different from men in some ways which are bloody awesome. I celebrate that whilst trying to whittle away at some of the innate and inexplicable discrimination.

❤️ Your post - fantastic

And I look down on women who do all the "wifework" and call it a job.

I think it's at risk to turn into an unfair SAHM/ working mum dispute.
Stay-at-home, you look after the kids. And you do most or all the chores because you can.
Working mum, you have to delegate something!
Wifework is a horrible word. But I do agree, dealing with dry cleaning, food, bills is something everyone does!

I do think that there is something intuitive in some women (not all) which kicks in when they have children, an empathy, a gut instinct.

I honestly do not agree. I think you get it more when you spend more time with the baby, that's all. I think that gut instinct can be found equally in men or adoptive parent.

YABU

Most jobs are more demanding than a day at home with the kids. It really is as simple as that.

'cook, clean, take the kids out, wash his clothes, get his suits ready. I do everything domestic,'

Yep you've got it sorted there op.

You really think that women don’t have an enormous head start on bonding and instinct after carrying a baby for 9 months inside your body? I think It’s a wonderful feature of basic female biology.

FFS. So when I say the SAHP should be doing the majority, you tell me I'm wrong. And when I say that the working parent should still actually be doing some of them, you tell me that won't work because of breastfeeding. So basically, it's impossible to be right in your eyes. You just want to argue.

I think that you said the SAHP should be doing all rather than just the majority actually. I presume you are talking about waking up in the night rather than just feeding as you mentioned "8 times" and clearly no baby needs to feed that often. If a baby is waking up that often it would be outrageous and dangerous for the partner not to share the load. Obviously doing the last feed at night or the first in the morning is not going to work if breastfeeding but they can still change nappies in the night or look after the baby after the have been fed etc.

Welcome to the world of Choocy Choice Feminism. Named after this scene from Sex and The City:

For the record feminism is not about the choices of individual women, but about increasing the opportunities for all women and like it or not, your choices can set a precedent or perpetuate a sexiststereotype.

Nobody makes any of their life-choices in a vacuum. We have been conditioned by our culture, but are also limited by (a lack of) opportunity. And you making choices and other people making choices create dynamics that everyone is subject to.

So can we please stop this me! me! me! discussion? That's what neo-liberalism is all about and it's ultimately only helping a select group of people, those who have a lot of power and influence already.

You really think that women don’t have an enormous head start on bonding and instinct after carrying a baby for 9 months inside your body? I think It’s a wonderful feature of basic female biology.

I think it's mainly just the fact that in the UK they are with the baby all the time once they are born rather than biology. Now my children are older and are not with me all the time there is no difference between their attachment to me compared with DH.

Shitholiday - I think you are articulating the powerful motivator of love in relation to labour. As women we often step outside the framework of economic motivation through child birth and rearing but only partially so as our partners (if we have them) are still caught up. Hence the need to over value the worth of paid work?

@Dungeondragon15

I didn't say the SAHP should do all. I said a few times they should do the majority and the working parent should do them on non working nights.

CaptSkippy THANK YOU. This is what I was trying to get at. Not anyone's individual choice but general trends

As I said, you're welcome to your opinion. It doesn't affect me. I'll stay doing what works for me 🤷🏻‍♀️

Oh the irony. If only you could be as magnanimous about what other posters choose to do!

YW. Glad my contributions are somewhat useful.

Don't you see the irony in going on about empowering women and telling men they should be doing half the night feeds, and getting angry at woman who don't support that... all whilst you're at home being the perfect little snow white wife, doing the cooking and cleaning and washing. Championing that lifestyle isn't doing a great deal for women all over the world.

Keepon - I think I agree with you. I suppose I value the care I gave to my kids as much if not more then my paid work. More in fact as I chose not to go back to the big game so I can be around more. But the issue I have with the OPs stance is that it underplays the enormous pros to women like me of being able to stay home and be mum while my partner goes into the grinding fray of climbing the greasy pole. i accept that my forebears were not so lucky - and had no choice - but I love that I can choose this. That’s feminism in play. But just because I choose to be at home does not mean I think it’s harder than work. I’ve done both. I’m not view, it’s not. That’s why I chose to do the night feeds/wakes - because I had the better deal.

I didn't say the SAHP should do all. I said a few times they should do the majority and the working parent should do them on non working nights.

Actually you said that it is blindingly obvious that they should be doing the night feeds. Nothing about "the majority" .

Not read the full thread but for what it's worth I did take the view that my husband was working, so no, he didn't do any night feeds, although he did the last one at night as we mix fed.

New dads get no consideration in the workplace and may also need to drive to get to work. I think as I was on maternity leave and could sleep and rest when I wanted, it was completely reasonable for me to take on the night feeds for the short time ds needed them (he started sleeping through quite early on and certainly by the time I went back to work he was sleeping through).

Oh the irony. If only you could be as magnanimous about what other posters choose to do!

Tbh book I think that’s going to go straight over their head

'Don't you see the irony in going on about empowering women and telling men they should be doing half the night feeds, and getting angry at woman who don't support that... all whilst you're at home being the perfect little snow white wife, doing the cooking and cleaning and washing. Championing that lifestyle isn't doing a great deal for women all over the world.'

Exactly. I think men should be more than able to get their own suits ready

Sounds awful op, he needs to pull his weight I'm afraid.

When one parent works and one stays at home all day, it's blindingly obvious who should be doing the night feeds. On non-working nights the working parent should step in

You selected only the first part of that when you quoted me. I said in the next breath that on non working nights, the working parent should be the one to step in.

feminism IS NOT individualism!

feminism IS about human rights!

Your choices and rationalisation or justifications of these choices matter. They create systems and dynamics, some good, some stiffling.

But it's bad to shut down every discussion about analyzing why people make the choices they do. Do you think advertiser sit still? They make billions from analyzing and influencing our choices, so why should we sell ourselves short and not also do that analysis for ourselves?

Do you think there is nothing to be learned from questioning your own choices? Or are you afraid of what you'll find if you look in the mirror?

Tbh my husband had a very responsible job when mine were babies. He needed sleep more than me

Before you have that baby, you and your partner should have decided who would stay home and who would work. Who would take on the majority of night feeds and who would only do weekends.

And there's another quote from me where I said majority and weekend (aka non-working nights).