Me or DH?

[OnlyTrying]

Long time poster...NC because it's ridiculous.

Background: I'm a massive pushover, low self esteem, battling anxiety but prone to over reacting. Asserting myself more after CBT! DH is kind, but stubborn. What he says usually goes. 9/10 times he's right anyway.

So I decided to plant some flowers in the garden. DH wonders over once or twice. Suggests I move some to somewhere else, which I do. Mildly annoyed I can't be left to it.

All planted, hard work done, weeding done, I start to water them using a bucket with water. Happy & proud of my mini Titchmarsh afternoon. DH wonders over and tells me I should use the hose.

He links the hose to the tap and I take it. Normally he waters the garden and I can see he's ITCHY to make it off me. I ignore and start watering. My own merry way.

DH follows me, watching judging and says I'm not doing it right and wants to take it off me to show me an 'easier, better way'.

I tell him firmly that I'm happy how I'm doing it and can he please quit micro managing me. He storms off.

Now he's in a huff.

Should I apologise or should he? I'll go with the majority opinion!!

He's not sensitive. He's manipulative and clingy and I don't know how you've managed 10 years of his shit. Don't have another 10.

Here's the thing, you are keeping yourself in that gilded cage because it's the easiest or safest option but your mental health will be suffering more because deep down you know it's actually harming you to stay.

You will never recover unless you take responsibility for yourself as the capable woman you are. Until you do that, the voices from the past telling you you are useless, and having the same narrative constantly reinforced by your shit husband will keep you in your shackles.

Time to start living.

I'd tell myself to get a grip. If there are any spare grips out there, throw them at me. Aim for my head

OP, I read this and thought that you're funny and articulate. You can do so much more than this.

Tell him you need to spend more time apart to be able to appreciate your relationship more, because as things stand you feel suffocated. I felt suffocated just reading the post about how he responds when you say you're doing something - anything.

@OnlyTrying
I started writing a long, detailed response to your posts but see I really don't need to following the excellent advice given to you by other posters - and the strengthening tone of your own further posts in this thread.

I will, however, say this:
A. You are 35. If you stay with him you will have decades of the same: that can't be what you want?

B. He will never be ready for children and just wait you out until your reproductive years are gone.

C. Without a job of your own will you ever get the strength to move towards a better future. Start with a local volunteer job if you can and build from there? Maybe take up some training for the job you'd eventually like?

Please re-read your posts and the responses to see what is really happening in this isolated, codependent "relationship".

It's too late.
Not yet.

Good luck OP. 🌈🌹

OP to me your next step seems completely clear!

Although perhaps a long-ish road if you left school without taking any exams. Other people will have better knowledge of the adult learning route (perhaps a new thread?) but it’s perfectly clear that you could race through the adult equivalent of A’ levels etc. (Though of course it may be that you have done all this over the past ten years?)

Essentially, you would be well advised to get yourself into a position where you could study Writing or English or whatever you’re most attracted to, properly, at degree level.

Make a virtue of the fact you have access to money and use it to help yourself.

If you have not already done so, pick a subject, google a list of the top ten places to study it - find out what the entry criteria are. Then locate whatever careers advice is available to you. (Years and years ago there was a fancy course, spread over weeks and rather expensive, that one could do in London. I forget the name. Probably still exists. Do that. Or your local one.) Find out what exams you need to pass and where the relevant colleges are. Take that step. Pass with flying colours. Get yourself to university.

I imagine your friends would be keen to help with this project. But it is more important that you are driven by your own desire for change and progress. If you find something you really want to do, that desire will propel you through hesitation and anxiety. You’d be amazed to discover just how quickly your life prospects could change for the better.

I'm post surgery so this isn't going to be as clear as I'd like it to be.

1. "...prone to over reacting..."

I can pretty much guarantee you're not prone to overreacting at all.

I can also pretty much guarantee that this is something you heard all the time as a child.

This is something that every child of abusive/narcy/controlling/neglectful parents grows up believing about themselves, because:

• every time they dared to express a natural emotional response (anger, irritation, hurt, disgust etc.) to being abused/neglected/controlled

• every time they tried to assert and or defend their personhood (expecting to be included/protected/acknowledged etc.)

... they were jumped on by their self-serving/boundary-stomping/abusive parents and their enablers.

They were told over and over again that they are 'sensitive', or 'emotional', that they 'overreact'/have 'anger issues'/are 'unforgiving'/'hold a grudge' etc.

The child doesn't get to assert autonomy or self-hood, or demand respectful treatment - the child's feelings are inconvenient and irritating - they draw uncomfortable attention to their parents' actions and failures.

So they shame and tone-police them into smaller and smaller expressions of emotions and self-hood until they're anxious, self-doubting, second-guessing, codependent messes.

Who are walking magnets for controlling abusers.

Which brings me to:

1. Now, your husband polices you, OP. That is, when you're not policing yourself for him.

OnlyTrying, please believe me when I say that I mean the following kindly:

Your life plan and relationship goals are profoundly, destructively codependent.

You intend to continue, quite literally, to spend your youth, your life, your potential, and your emotional energy moulding yourself around a controlling, engulfing project of a man who has not displayed one iota of proactivity or drive towards improving his character, life, or relationship on his own.

You keep pouring yourself into him, giving up your chance for a career/a supportive, loving relationship/rewarding hobbies/a vibrant social network, and now children - he doesn't want them, so you're 'not sure' you want them now - and all for a man who makes your world smaller and smaller every day, who vampirises any plans you make for yourself and who wrings the joy out of something as simple and rewarding as a gardening project because he just can't refrain from treating you like an idiot toddler.

It's depressingly telling that you acknowledge that he reserves the right to vigorously defend his autonomy and personhood - you freely admit that if you dared to treat him like an idiot toddler like he does you, he'd lose it.

No wonder you're anxious etc. I felt sick and suffocated just reading your posts.

Please consider intensive therapy for yourself, to work on your self-esteem and identity issues.

Some options for first steps:

• Look for a one-day a week volunteer job - charity shop / hospital friends / animal rescue centre
• Start taking a regular exercise class, could be anything you've fancied trying - dance / martial arts / tennis / netball
• Consider studying for maths/english GCSEs?

@Ce7913 yes, that sums up frighteningly well my personality and background. And DH's lack of proactivity. I'm taking everything on board.

Everyone - honestly, thank you. Times a hundred. Something has switched and I'm not switching it off. It's like an alarm. Usually I take the batteries out but I'm listening to it wailing.

Well, the good news is the plants are looking happy this morning. It must be some sort of magic luck that they didn't immediately wilt and die from my ineffective watering. Who knows, maybe my faulty watering will keep them alive another day or two.

Not so great news, I tried talking with DH. I asked last night if we could have a chat and he said let's talk this morning.

I said I was feeling as though I'm not living a proper life and that's partly due to how co-dependant we are. He agreed. He did go immediately 'tired' and downcast and defensive though - raised voice etc. I kept calm.

He said he feels pulled into my world (?) and he hasn't got energy to do anything because he worries about me. That we don't move forward because I give him mixed signals about what I want.

I feel like it's 90% my fault, I must be pretty draining if I've literally taken all his energy and I'm causing his fatigue and headaches?

But.

I'm done. I'm done with this cycle. I told him that right now, today, the past is the past and I have to move forward. He hasn't done a million things he's promised to do and instead he chooses to hang around whatever I'm doing. I can't make decisions because I'm incredibly worried about the possible negative effect on him.

I said I'm happy to separate and work out the logistics of living separately while we both work on ourselves. Then I won't be so draining, right?

He said he doesn't want that. That he agrees things have to change and he's going to focus on doing the jobs around the house that he promised.

I don't know why but I feel like 'yeah, sure, that'll last a week.'

Is it okay if I'm completely selfish and put me first? If I focus on building up my life, regardless of what he's doing? It's like I need permission.

Not only is it ok it’s absolutely what you should be doing

Is it okay if I'm completely selfish and put me first? If I focus on building up my life, regardless of what he's doing?

It's criminal if you don't.

You are so wrong for each other. One of you needs to short circuit this awful arrangement.

Is it okay if I'm completely selfish and put me first? If I focus on building up my life, regardless of what he's doing? It's like I need permission.

It's not only okay. It's the right thing to do. It's what you need to do. Do it.

I feel so positively for you that you are listening to your inner alarm now and not doing what he's trained you to do and give in as soon as he starts getting "stressed". Stay strong.

Right. Keeping strong. I've gone for a run, showered, and I'm going to carry on gardening. He's finally putting up a blind he promised to do 10 months ago.

The house feels tense. He's very quiet.

I'm reminding myself I have a future. I will have a future. I'm not wasting my life anymore.

In answer to a few PP asking about my background, even after leaving school with nothing I did do an Access course and I was just graduating my BA arts degree (I won awards! Passed with average across modules of 82%) when I met DH. Academically I do quite well. Love learning. I used to write, writing is my passion, I used to get short pieces published but I've had writer's block for years. I'd love to go back to study but I would want to fo a course with a definite idea of a career in mind. Nothing stands out.

The year I graduated...he left his job, I helped him in invest, and we travelled a bit. I hated it, with him. It wasn't fun. Everything was left to me to organise and plan. And now a few years of nothing, waiting for life to start again.

It's been a long, hard, emotional slog.

While I'm gardening I'll think about volunteering/job hunting/new classes to try.

When I've suggested I volunteer before, DH has said I shouldn't work for free. When I've suggested getting a job he's said don't bother because what we'd pay in tax would cancel out any earnings. And I find it hard spending money on classes when I feel I'm living off of DH's investments.

But I need to break through these and do it anyway. Fuck it. I am not eighty years old. Seriously, my (lovely) elderly neighbour has a better social life. I bake her scones because have no one else to bake for.

You would, of course, be eligible for a Government Postgraduate Loan for pretty much any university course ...

When I've suggested I volunteer before, DH has said I shouldn't work for free. When I've suggested getting a job he's said don't bother because what we'd pay in tax would cancel out any earnings.

I just want to highlight this to you OP, because it demonstrates very clearly that, whatever his issues might be, what he wants and what he is deliberately doing is controlling you, keeping you small, and keeping you from getting away from him.

(And what total garbage. Shouldn't work for free? Tax would cancel out earnings even though you have to live very tightly on his interest? Whatfuckingever. No it wouldn't.)

You are utterly wasted on this man @OnlyTrying . You are articulate, funny, self-deprecating (but in an appealing way), clever. Kind. Way too kind.

There's a whole cohort of people close by to you, missing out on your friendship and good times with you.

You don't need to do this overnight. You don't need to do it quickly, or on anyone's timescale but your own. Just please do do it.

How on earth would you earning and tax for you because you would have a tax free allowance and the affect on his investments well that shows uou

Keep on keeping on. Don’t let him put up a blind and do a few other jobs, then everything slides back to how it was before. Sounds like he thinks a bit more diy will put you back on your box and things can go back to how they were before.

Of course he doesn’t want to separate. Because it’s not you that’s causing this situation by being “draining”. Well done for turning it back on him though.

Oh it’s almost as if you have Stockholm syndrome and he kidnapped you and made your life all about him

This is what I felt, OP. Like you are in prison!

It's not you, it's him. Spread your, very capable, wings and fly.

The guy is forty-seven and not ready for kids yet? If you want kids yourself it's not too late, but be aware that your window is rapidly closing.

I want to keep saying thank you for the encouragement, honestly it's quite a new feeling. I do feel a collective sort of strength. I'm just a stranger and I can't believe you're taking the time to help me see what's going on.

Can I be married to one of you instead?

I know, time is running out fertility wise. I do want a family. But honestly? Not with him. Not with a man with no energy, no friends, no hobbies,for whom everything is negative.

I can't bring children into this unhealthy dynamic. If it's too late by the time I get back on my feet, I'm okay with that. I have to be. I'll just adopt a dozen dogs to fill the void and buy them ridiculous outfits and blingy collars. And insist they eat at the table.

And they can watch me water the garden however I like.

I'm pulling for you OP. I really am. You have so much to give. You're smart and witty and brave and you deserve to have the life you want.

I have no advice beyond what has already been put, but just wanted to post and tell you I am rooting for you OP.

You deserve so much more. Good luck.

He's so controlling he wants to police the language you use(bugger off v stop micro managing).
He has groomed you so well that you have bought into his pathetic sensitive world. That everything revolves around him and if you feel differently the you are in the wrong and hurting him.

It sounds like the cbt is strengthening you and no doubt he will step up his game as you gain your independence.

Please make a plan to leave and start living. Don't give him ten more years of misery.

What about a residential writing course, to get your mojo back. Meet other people and get out and about. Somewhere he can’t tag along.

I think you’ve just got to get on and do the things you want to do.

It doesn’t really matter what reason there is for the controlling behaviour, that’s his problem to deal with.

You are young enough to start living your own life, don’t let your life just be played out in your dreams.

When I've suggested I volunteer before, DH has said I shouldn't work for free. When I've suggested getting a job he's said don't bother because what we'd pay in tax would cancel out any earnings.

‘Because I want to’ should be all the reason you need.