To wonder what exactly middle class and upper class Mums do to be skinny

[Humpy84]

I am a Mum of a two year old turning three July. Not an age that he can be packed up for long walks in buggy.

I have gained weight and feeling overwhelmed by everything.

I have noticed and I think it is obvious that middle and upper class Mums tend to be slimmer.

I want to know if you identify this and if so what is your weekly shopping routine, meal plan, how do you exercise with or without toddler/s, tips and tricks etc, diet plans, etc etc.

In contradiction to that, at my 'skinniest' times I would eat well and eat bad. Well maybe not bad,but certainly have had left-over curry for breakfast, and/or chocolate etc.

Being thin doesn't necessarily equate to eating healthy.

You cannot look at someones weight and gauge the quality of the food they consume from it!

Rice cakes are great the ones with the chocolate on the top

Yes Blue skies, every fat person has a hormonal issue, whether inborn or acquired. This is precisely why the obese feel hungrier by several degrees than people with normal weight, they also experience overpowering drive towards carby fatty foods which is alien to the ‘naturally’ slim. It can be genetic predisposition (as in my case), I always had a greater appetite than average and had a tendency to put on weight even as a child. My relatives on maternal side are all obese in exactly the same way, three generations that I know. Dad’s side - none are overweight.

Part of it can be the vicious circle effect, you reinforce your hormonal imbalance with your diet, so it drives you more to weight increasing behaviour/ physiological responses. For example your body becomes less and less sensitive to leptin (which is supposed to tell you when you are full/don’t need nutrients or extra meals). Same as permanent, abnormally elevated levels of insulin in the body ensure that insulin receptors are paired down (insulin resistance) and hence cells in the body don’t receive nutrients as they should, hence the brain signalling all the time - eat, eat, eat, you need nutrients. While you may have a year’s worth of nutrient supply in the form of own body fat. It is just locked away due to hormonal interaction.

Yes you can reprogram yourself to a degree, for instance by practising low carb, but it is an incredible uphill battle and as soon as you slip, once, it’s back.

Somebody who has ever experienced it will know exactly what I am on about. Personal responsibility is one thing, but it is NOT just that by far.

@formerbabe I’m confused. It sounds like you’re saying overweight people need serious psychological help to begin to eat healthier.
Correct?

Yes in some cases....I was talking about people who are very seriously morbidly obese rather than just a few pounds overweight. Just as people suffering from anorexia need psychological help.

So I always wonder if the food restrictions apply to the children as well
Why are you assuming that those slim mum are so because of food restriction? You get slim by eating healthily in the right dose.

Very skinny people might possibly be restricting their food intake although even then, it's not always the case.

I am slightly obsessed with My 600lb Life and without fail, every single time the overweight patient is hospitalised and put on a calorie restricted diet - they lose weight and these are utterly sedentary people with incredibly complex health issues.

Margo, you presume that one can cut calories indefinitely and their metabolism will stay the same. Which it does not. Proven in labs time after time. The graphs show a drop in metabolism as calorie-restriction progresses and crucially even after the restriction finishes, the metabolism stays low and never recovers to pre-diet levels. Which means one will be piling on weight faster eating fewer or ‘approved’ TDE calories.

So far the hypothesis is that metabolism is permanently damaged by dieting via calorie restriction, as none of the longitudinal studies could show it ever picks up, ever even many many years later.

@formerbabe Precisely. I don’t think anyone here thinks they’re in a position to give advice to those with eating disorders, which is why your likening overweight people (without eating disorders) to drug and alcohol addicts is problematic. We’re not talking about extreme cases, we’re talking about people (ie. the OP) who feel they are overweight and want to do something about it.

For those who are overweight and not addicted to food, the basic science behind eating less and moving more is irrefutable.

The lovely OP (who I’m feeling very sorry for at this point given how ridiculous this thread has become) asked whether we think class has something to do with weight, and for advice on “weekly shopping routine, meal plan, how do you exercise with or without toddler/s, tips and tricks etc, diet plans, etc etc”.

Posters have given their opinion on the class issue, and also advice on how to mitigate her weight gain.

Those who prefer to be passive observers in their own lives have essentially said there’s nothing she can do, except perhaps starve and punish herself with exercise. Super helpful.

Those who prefer to be active participants in their own lives have offered actual practical solutions. Hardly smug.

AvocadoDream I'm not disputing that crash dieting is bad for people BUT I also think that people arrive at obesity for complex reasons and if we fail to address the reasons people become obese, then we are always trying to close the door after the horse has bolted.

We need to address the awful, warped mess that we have gotten into with food, where people refer to themselves as "being good" or "being bad" depending on what they've eaten and certain types of food are called "sins" or "free" etc. Food for most obese people isn't fuel, it is providing a host of other functions, which it was never intended to do. Or it is being eating ill advisedly, because the people who are supposed to guide us as to what constitutes 'healthy' eating have very little idea what they are talking about and are heavily influenced by commercial organisations who have vested interests in the consumption of their products!

@pussincahoots

Yes, it was a slight derail to the thread ... obviously I don't think all overweight people need psychological help. Just making the point that simplifying all weight loss down to 'eat less, move more' is not that simple. I was referring to the extreme end of weight.

I don’t think anyone here thinks they’re in a position to give advice to those with eating disorders, which is why your likening overweight people (without eating disorders) to drug and alcohol addicts is problematic. We’re not talking about extreme cases, we’re talking about people (ie. the OP) who feel they are overweight and want to do something about it.

I agree. If all overweight people are (even accidentally) grouped together with those with eating disorders and in need of expert help, then we introduce a whole group of gatekeepers to successful weight loss. Many with the right information and willingness can achieve a healthy weight for themselves and by themselves.

Hardly smug.

Agree. Just speaking from experience. I have been overweight I know what it is like.

For those who are overweight and not addicted to food, the basic science behind eating less and moving more is irrefutable.

Yes and no. I have experienced not eating right for me. I think different people might well have a different insulin sensitivity, in than some can tolerate more sugar and simple carbs than others. I find my satiety and weight loss diets work better when I stay away from eating too many simple carbs and sugars. Years ago in the 80s the message was you could eat as much of these foods as you wanted as long as you did not exceed your calorie expenditure. Yet I found that made me hungry and I didn't lose much weight when I needed to. I put weight on around my middle and have had cancer. Yet I am not diabetic (tested during cancer treatment). However I do believe there is very definitely a problem with eating too much sugar and simple carbs.

I agree it isn’t just calories in - calories out. What you eat is important too. For health at least. I suppose you might lose weight eating small amounts of processed shite as long as you didn’t eat too much.

Water from our taps is free.

I am guessing you are not in England Jodie?

My DM ate huge amounts - around 3000+ calories a day, and exercised very little. She would walk to the bus stop opposite her house and go to the shops, then the bus dropped her off right outside her house again. She was 5 ft tall at a scrape and weighed around 6 - 7 stone my whole childhood.

I lived with the woman so I know what she ate, and she certainly wasn't making herself sick. As a result of her own eating "abilities" she was unsurprisingly vitriolic about fat people, as she imagined them to be eating double or triple what she ate. In fact most of us would be overweight on what she ate.

No - I cannot explain it scientifically, but she did end up with very high cholesterol, TIAs and angina.

I assume that what Jodie means is, that, as the vast majority of households in the UK are connected to the mains supply as standard, and that water is necessary for bathing, cleaning, laundry etc, the extra amount used for drinking water is neglible, it is effectively free, or certainly very very cheap, so 'everyone' has equal access to it, so being poor is not a barrier to the best thing to drink for health.

Yes I know that some people will struggle to pay their water bill but, due to water's vital importance for hygiene reasons, it unlawful for water to be cut off for non payment.

Water from our taps is free.

I am guessing you are not in England Jodie?

No - I am in England, but you can use the tap at your workplace and lot of other places at no cost. And at home, to fill a litre of water bottle a day is going to cost next to nothing. Free in restaurants

Sorry I forget the slightest inaccuracy on mumsnet and you get pounced on,

Sorry - I genuinely thought perhaps you were not in UK Jodie

There is a lot of money made by pedalling myths of one sort or another in the diet industry. Calories in, calories out. That's it.

sunonthepatio

Then how would you explain someone like my mother as described above? I ask because I haven't a clue how she maintained such a tiny figure over decades on a huge intake of calories and minimal exercise other than walking around Tescos.

I lived in London & only drank bottled water because heard the water there has been through at least 3 people before you! But imagine the water in rural areas to be fresh & deicious, not cloudy & murky!

Am not a mum but do zero exercise. Hate gyms. Only run for the bus. I am still what people would call ‘skinny’ though without clothes am definitely ‘skinny fat’ and have little pot belly, flabby etc. I notice if I eat too much will put on weight. Usually fluctuate 5kg up & down.... don’t know for sure as threw out scales many years ago! Terrible for the psyche. Like to go by how clothes feel.

I agree it is what you eat. I genuinely love vegetables. Don’t eat much fruit, am partial to a nice strawberry when in season. If food ingredients have lots of words I don’t understand, generally don’t buy it.

Some days am very busy & don’t get to eat much, so have one big dinner! Some days will have 3 square meals a day. I generally don’t have seconds. I always try to have some form of veggies in every meal. If I eat maccas, generally will want to eat lighter for a few days as it’s quite rich. Drink about 4 glasses of wine a week (a bottle). Nothing is set in stone...I do notice that am often busy & just grab a coffee & muesli bar if don’t have time to eat.

If am very sedentary or overeat will notice it within a week or two. So for me it really is calories in VS calories out. I am not saying some people don’t have slow metabolisms, but do believe in many cases people are unintentionally overeating or not eating the right foods

Eg I have zero off switch with pasta. An actual serving of pasta is ridiculous! I would rather smash 3 huge bowls of pasta, unbutton my jeans & eat a bit lighter the next day. Not as a diet, just to recalibrate.

I also tend to think about eating over the week - not stressing if I eat a bit of chocolate or half a wheel of Brie that day, life is too short! Just moderation.

Another thing have noticed is I love seedy breads, if it looks like parrot food am all in. I lost a lot of weight going gluten free about 10years ago - no longer do it, but it made me realise how much crap is in so many commercial foods! White bread still eat, but more in a pane di casa/sourdough type forms.

Calories in, calories out has been debunked by the scientific community and there are numerous studies to that effect. After short-term weight loss, there is the inevitable rebound and at 5- or 10-year mark those ‘successful dieters’ are heavier than ever. Calories in, calories out does not work.

Apart from it being an absolute torture and misery, all for nothing.

The problem is rubbish food, not the calories. Cut out the junk in all forms and you will soon see the weight go as the body returns to normal. But a lot of people see doughnuts and pop as ‘treats’ rather than what it really is, junk which makes you ill. Mainly because they have been told for decades, it doesn’t matter what you get your daily TDE from.

That's interesting Avocado

I don't think DM has ever eaten a ready meal or a McDonalds in her life. Everything was full fat, full of sugar, and even lard, but home cooked for the most part.

A typical day would be full English Breakfast with sausages, bacon, fried eggs etc and about three slices of white bread slathered in anchor butter. She drank about ten cups of tea a day, with three sugars, and two biscuits each cup. She would say "a drink's too wet without one"

Mid morning snack would be a custard tart or a couple of jam tarts.

Lunch was usually a cornish pasty or corned beef and pickle sandwiches (two rounds/four slices bread) with crisps. Maybe a Penguin biscuit.

Afternoon snack would be one or two fresh cream cakes (she went to the shops to buy them every day)

Dinner would be Pork Chops, Chips cooked in deep fat fryer or a mountain of buttery mash, vegetables. Followed by ice cream with sauce on it and maybe a meringue.

Quite often she would have a bacon sandwich for "supper"

In light of my posts above, the link between class and obesity is partly lack of knowledge about nutrition in a lower socio-economic bracket and partly lack of mental resources to think about, source and properly prepare good food. As too busy surviving day to day.

Middle classes have got better nutritional awareness, lower levels of general life stress and plenty of other ways to treat themselves other than food. So food is considered a component of healthy life style rather than comfort or a treat.

Well Cuppeycake, your Mother is a case in point wrt the calorie theory. According to it, calories she was putting in were in a large surplus, so she would have been rapidly putting weight on. If it doesn’t work this way, why would it work the other way?

There were studies where the subjects were almost force fed ridiculous amount of calories, 5000-6000 a day, yet they either did not put on any weight or put marginally small amounts on, which bore no relation to the calories they consumed. Monitored, recorded and proofed.

I will probably go to my grave not understanding how she could eat like that, but it does explain why so many thin people are horrified at what they imagine SOME overweight people eat. I appreciate that many overweight people eat as much if not more than her, but she never got bigger than a size 6/8.

Sadly it's not genetic as I maintain on 1300 calories a day