How should white people refer to other races (in UK)

[seesawteddy]

I am not being provocative, I genuinely need to know what words are offensive because I think I mess up sometimes.
I thought ‘brown people’ was okay because that’s what my Indian friends use to refer to themselves and each other, but just read on here it’s offensive, so must just be the norm for my group of mates.

Another one is ‘people of colour / PoC, it’s the term my friend from Iraq uses and he’s doing a phd to do with race equaity. But I’ve had a few funny look recently when I used it.

The problem with Asian/Midde Eastern/Pakistani etc is sometimes I don’t know what someone’s heritage is, and also I think it is rude if they are actually British citizens.

So if I want to say something like “What have been the experiences of ___ in UK airports?”
How would I say it?

When I was younger I had friends who were mixed Arab/white Scottish background and some with just Arab backgrounds. Their skin was as white as a fully white person’s and they were still called the P word and N word. It doesn’t tell you anything about what the person actually looks like. Racist people just love shouting racist terms at people they think are different. They don’t care if they’re accurate.

returnofthecat unfortunately for those of us who are biracial or tri it, 'mixed race' does not work as it is assumed by most people to mean 'part black'. I say biracial to describe myself as it hasn't been hijacked to mean any specific thing yet. Don't get me started on those ethnicity forms that are everywhere. they are ridiculous. They will go onto infinite options like 'Bangladeshi-mixed' or 'Asian (meaning Indian subcontinent)-mixed' but still has nothing that fits me and millions of others. What does an Indonesian+Spanish call themselves? Or a Korean+Syrian? Why is mixed Bangladeshi or Japanese worthy of a separate category but others not. Why bother if it's going to be incorrect. I just get left with 'other'. Way to be made to feel irrelevant.

Hi, sorry for not returning sooner. Really interesting reading all the responses.

Some have asked why I want to know, well I am studying a social sciences degree and discussion around race and discrimination crop up a lot. But not just around university, in conversation more generally too. My family and friends like to discuss the news, and racism and hate crime are very much in the spotlight at the moment.

As many of you have said, the easy answer seems to be “just avoid it” but then these are important topics that need to be discussed; we seem to be lacking the language needed for white people to properly engage with these issues, and that I think is part of the problem.

18th century classifications of ‘race’ were caucasoid, mongoloid and negroid this was based on physical characteristics only.

Thankfully, we now know and accept that humans populations are far more diverse than this vulgar classification system (which interestingly still persists in the US - Caucasian, Black, Asian).

From the thread, the problem occurs when you try and reduce people to simple races and strive for a simple descriptive term. Plus, it’s almost impossible to account for individual preferences - personally, I find being called ‘brown’ quite jarring.

It is complex though, humans are represented by nationalities, ethnicities and ancestries. Maybe if we felt free to discuss them, then we would have fewer conversations like these. In an earlier post someone said they told their child off for saying their friend had a brown face. I disagree with this, because you are turning something factual into an insult from an early age, so then when that child becomes an adult, they need to post on an internet forum asking for guidance in how to describe people from another ethnic group... I’m not shaming or blaming anyone at all, neither do I have the answer. It’s unfortunate society has made it that way.

Agree with you @Glassier

@toucantoo Actually, in my experience, 'mixed race' is the only term that doesn't mean part-black! It's what I used to describe myself and is my preferred term for others to use when describing me.

It does irritate me no end how 'minority' is always assumed to mean black. This planet is full of lots of ethnicities.

OP "As many of you have said, the easy answer seems to be “just avoid it” but then these are important topics that need to be discussed; we seem to be lacking the language needed for white people to properly engage with these issues, and that I think is part of the problem."

you think we are lacking the language for white people specifically? I think it's fair to say that I am not the only non-white who has entirely lost the plot on the language.

someone upthread mentioned ticking "other". I now don't tick boxes or choose "prefer not to say". My dad used to do the same.

OP I do agree that the sensitive that surrounds how you refer to someone’s race does mean that we are less likely to have discussions about important issues because people are too scared of offending.

I think the problem you have OP is in your question.

There is no term to apply to everyone who isn't white. It is a hangover from colonial days and in the US from segregation.

We don't even think about having a word for everyone who is not black or everyone who is not mixed race.

I tend to go with whatever my friends / colleagues use about themselves, so I use Black and Asian.

I know some people live and work in areas that are almost 100% white so all their friends and relatives are white, in that case a look at an equalities monitoring form.

I think the problem you have OP is in your question

The OP's question is reasonable though. She wants to know, basically - what is the experience of people travelling through airports who are likely to be discriminated against or treated unfairly because they are not white.

It's because racism exists that she needs a phrase for "not white".

She can't possibly know the ethnicities of all the people involved - nor list them even if she did as they'd be too numerous.

In feminism we're concerned with people trying to do away with sex as a meaningful category partly because if we can't categorise by sex, we can't fight sexism.

If people are discriminated against for not being white, then surely we need an acceptable word or phrase that means "not white" if we are to fight / expose / talk about racism?

Hey OP, they're people. Just like you and I. That's sufficient.

Hey OP, they're people. Just like you and I. That's sufficient.

No, it's not sufficient - not if you want to talk about racism at least.

BAME

Black, Asian and mixed race, I used to prefer to use oriental for chinese/japanese but have become aware we aren't supposed to now we should also refer to them as Asian although I find that very unclear

Hey OP, they're people. Just like you and I. That's sufficient.

That's ... Not an answer

"Also you proved my point about white people not having a clue about race and therefore should keep quiet about it."

@Teddybear45 my question was genuine, regarding whether there should be more variety of descriptive words for skin colour. Surely it must be possible to ask a question, on a thread specifically about this subject, without it being taken the wrong way. After all, how do you expect people to "have a clue about race" if you think "you should keep quiet" is the best answer to their questions? I haven't told you my skin colour BTW.

BAME

Black, Asian and mixed race

BAME stands for Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic - not mixed race.