How should white people refer to other races (in UK)

[seesawteddy]

I am not being provocative, I genuinely need to know what words are offensive because I think I mess up sometimes.
I thought ‘brown people’ was okay because that’s what my Indian friends use to refer to themselves and each other, but just read on here it’s offensive, so must just be the norm for my group of mates.

Another one is ‘people of colour / PoC, it’s the term my friend from Iraq uses and he’s doing a phd to do with race equaity. But I’ve had a few funny look recently when I used it.

The problem with Asian/Midde Eastern/Pakistani etc is sometimes I don’t know what someone’s heritage is, and also I think it is rude if they are actually British citizens.

So if I want to say something like “What have been the experiences of ___ in UK airports?”
How would I say it?

I'm happy with mixed, Chinese, or BAME. (I wouldn't object to Asian if I knew the person talking to me was American.) Person of color is way more common in America than in the UK; I would find it strange if a Brit said it.

Btw, the Orient is the East and the Occident is the West. I have no particular objection to Occidental people referring to me as having Oriental heritage. It's rather generic though.

There's a very good sketch about this somewhere; not sure who did it but basically a white woman spends 10minutes bending herself out of shape trying to describe her black colleague to another colleague without using the term 'black'. I'm mixed race and had no idea that people really expend so much mental agony over this sort of thing.

I had no idea that so many people spent so long trying to describe people by colour/ethnic origin!

They’re not... they’re spending time trying to navigate the minefield of politically correct ethnic terminology, hoping some sanctimonious (white) person doesn’t berate them for being racist for selecting the ‘wrong’ term.

Surely BAME is a racist term. Minority Ethnic would surely suffice, but for some reason “black” people are added as a separate group. Why would you do that unless you’re wanting to single them out as “different” from all the minority ethnic groups? Separation of an ethnic group for no good reason is the very epitome of racism.

It follows that those who use the term are racists, even if subliminally....

Or maybe I’m overthinking this, in the same way all the “woke” community love to pounce on any ethnic term that doesn’t meet with their approval.

Let’s be honest, how often is someone of European descent described as being white as a matter of incident. The reality is we don’t say, you know Steve the white bloke. It’s not an adjective we commonly use. If it happens it is odd.

It’s easy enough to find other ways to describe someone without getting tongue tied into dodgy language. if you do, just take the time and effort to find out why it could be offensive.

Btw most ethnic minorities are incredibly think skinned because we get to hear carelessly spoken crap all the time. If you get a push back it might just be the final straw in a long line of digs and insults from people who have no idea what it means to be marginalised and singled out.

My DD is mixed ethnicity but not with any ethnicity mentioned yet. She's adopted and the current feeling among adult transracial adoptees in the UK seems to be BME or BAME unless you're talking a specific ethnicity.

Let’s be honest, how often is someone of European descent described as being white as a matter of incident. The reality is we don’t say, you know Steve the white bloke. It’s not an adjective we commonly use. If it happens it is odd.
I grew up white but the minority in the far east and it would have been entirely unremarkable for someone to describe me/my family as white. Outside of Europe white is not the norm.

@drspouse What is transracial?

Let’s be honest, how often is someone of European descent described as being white as a matter of incident

Surely it’s because it’s not really a useful way of identifying someone where 90%+ of people are white. It would be like going into an old people’s home and wondering why people don’t describe someone as having grey hair

There's a very good sketch about this somewhere; not sure who did it but basically a white woman spends 10minutes bending herself out of shape trying to describe her black colleague to another colleague without using the term 'black'.

There are a number of posters on this thread who doubtless would be just like this, as though someone’s ethnic origin is some kind of insult.

@Oakenbeach
Most people don’t live in a community with one or two BAME people. Using colour as a descriptor is relatively pointless in most of the country and as you have explained not necessary.

If you don’t need to use colour as a descriptor for Europeans or any other dominant group you don’t need to use it. Job done if you don’t want to be offensive

If you don’t need to use colour as a descriptor for Europeans or any other dominant group you don’t need to use it. Job done if you don’t want to be offensive

Agreed.

LemonTT

Perhaps if you live in London or certain other urban areas, but large swathes of the UK are 90%+ White British, with some rural districts being 99%+.

I am white so I can only go on what my friends have said. But my Asian friends call themselves Asian or brown, if I had to describe their race I would go for the country of origin because I know, or the descriptor they use for themselves. if I didn't I would just say Asian.

It's not completely irrelevant because there are cultural things that come up in relation to their race, so it does come up in conversation with them and with others. But I wouldn't go around being like "my Indian friend x". They also call me white or mention my whiteness to me at certain times.

Generally I think people find skirting around the issue of race to be more offensive than just saying black or whatever. Because at the end of the day race is a huge part of who we are and we can't really completely ignore it. My whole life I've never really heard of any other term being acceptable (apart from poc in America which I avoid). I don't think it's a mine field. I think being scared to talk about or describe race if necessary makes it a minefield, because it makes it seem like it's an issue or embarrassment. It's the whole "I don't see colour" when of course you do! But it doesn't mean you treat people or see people differently because of their colour, but you do see their colour, you can't just completely ignore someone's race.

If I was speaking to a black person for example in the shop, I wouldn't feel the need to describe their race to others ever but occasionally I do find myself describing someone's race. Or talking about race in a wider context.

Also in the context of the "would you describe someone as "european" you would often say for example Mediterranean. Or Scandinavian.

I’m taller than average... I’m not offended if someone describes me as tall when asked to describe me, same regarding my glasses and red hair, both features that could distinguish me. I don’t see why it should be any different with ethnicity. To avoid all mention of it under all circumstances implies there’s shame or embarrassment around ethnicity, or fear of some PC admonishment.... that’s an invidious state of affairs.

BlueCornishPixie

A very sensible and reasonable approach, and one adopted by most people. We should just ignore the professionally offended zealots who make everyone tread on egg-shells.

This reminds me of the time I was talking about something pertinent to black people in the UK - can't remember what it was but i ended guing round in circles with someone.

Indignant American: You mean African American?

Me: No I mean black. The person leading this campaign is British, not American.

Indignant American: But you can't call them black. That is so offensive. You have to call them African American.

Me: They describe themselves as black and they are not American, FFS!!!!

My very good friend who is of afro-carribean heritage always uses the words 'your colour' or 'my colour' when describing someone.

@VladmirsPoutine transracial adoption is when a family of one race adopts a child of a different one

@edgeofheaven Thanks for the explanation. I assumed it was something entirely different.

To PP making the points that descriptions don't match the map, that's because all regional terminology is culturally/politically constructed, it's not actually a geographical truth - eg: Southeast Asia is a term invented during WWII to refer to a particular theatre of war. Sometimes people include Australia in this region, sometimes they don't. South Asia and East Asia are terms that have emerged from a whole range of historical factors.

Think about oriental for a moment. 'East'.from where are you measuring this east? If you were in the US, technically Europe would be to your East. But Americans don't call people of European origin 'orientals'... lots of Eurocentric political assumptions inherent in that word. It's not 'just' descriptive geography.

For what it's worth I'm a white person living in Asia so I get described by my skin colour all the time, but I still wouldn't do the same to my friends and acquaintances, I'd try to use their ethnicity or just say I don't know their background.

Why is brown seen as more offensive than black, when it is more visually coherent? Nobody is actually black, just like nobody is really white (well, maybe some rarities exist). Peach and brown would be more accurate ""races""

Gosh no wonder so many people don't know what to say, the range of opinions here is massive! Some prefer brown, some find it offensive, some find PoC weird... The list goes on. Fortunately I can't remember the last time I had to describe someone's ethnicity, I'd probably get punched!

In terms of colour I guess ‘yellow’ for East Asians is gonna be offensive to most. I suppose we are just as ‘yellow’ as white people are ‘white’ or black people ‘black’.

Brown is probably the most accurate in terms of skin tone. Funny how language is inconsistent and inaccurate - but we know what it means!

I try not to say anything if possible, but if asked I'd say Asian or Black - as I'm white there's no need to say white.
If they looked Chinese/Japanese I'd probably say Oriental.

But I admit I feel uncomfortable using any of those words, People seem so PC today, everyone is easily offended.