How should white people refer to other races (in UK)

[seesawteddy]

I am not being provocative, I genuinely need to know what words are offensive because I think I mess up sometimes.
I thought ‘brown people’ was okay because that’s what my Indian friends use to refer to themselves and each other, but just read on here it’s offensive, so must just be the norm for my group of mates.

Another one is ‘people of colour / PoC, it’s the term my friend from Iraq uses and he’s doing a phd to do with race equaity. But I’ve had a few funny look recently when I used it.

The problem with Asian/Midde Eastern/Pakistani etc is sometimes I don’t know what someone’s heritage is, and also I think it is rude if they are actually British citizens.

So if I want to say something like “What have been the experiences of ___ in UK airports?”
How would I say it?

I know I keep coming back to this, but when do you need to refer to other people by colour, race
or ethnicity? I can think of some circumstances -

1. When a group of people are all wearing exactly the same clothes and you need to identify one- the NHS workers in scrubs previously mentioned
2. The Security guard example - only two people, both in uniform
3. For research purposes - gathering education statistics for example, or the survey the OP mentioned. These are usually covered by the house style of the organisation doing the information gathering.
4. In conversation among friends I suppose - but you wouldn’t be terrified of making a mistake there because your friend would know it was a mistake, correct you and move on.

1. The Richard round the corner with the barbecue- would you say the white chap?

I do wonder when people on here talk about their friends being perfectly happy with being called “Oriental” or “coloured” or on one memorable thread some time ago “chocolate face” whether the friends are just too tired for one more conversation and think “Oh sod it, I can’t be arsed today”

"That Indian doctor" -completely meaningless.

Bertrand you forgot the most important one:

1. On MN threads about race where you need to say "my black / Asian / whatever friends call themselves..."

Considering race is a useless social construct, I don't know why you would bother referring to it. It's preferable to use ethnicity now.

I do wonder when people on here talk about their friends being perfectly happy with being called “Oriental” or “coloured” or on one memorable thread some time ago “chocolate face” whether the friends are just too tired for one more conversation and think “Oh sod it, I can’t be arsed today”

Can't we do them the courtesy of believing they mean what they say?

Also sometimes totally inaccurate, no he is Sri Lankan or Pakistani (not okay to call a Pakistani Indian btw and shows a distastful lack of awareness of Britsh Colonial history).

The Richard round the corner with the barbecue- would you say the white chap?

Yes. “Richard, the white guy,”. Id describe him further if needed, eg, has glasses, skinny etc (just as I would if Richard is black). Whatever stands out tbh.

POC is used a lot in the US when referring to African Americans.

Black, mixed race and Asian is accepted varying on the person's heritage.

About neighbour we don’t know -
DH- “That Black guy around the corner, his name is Richard, has just invited us to his BBQ later”.
Me- “oh, that’s nice of him, don’t forget to take a bottle”.

I agree on the security guard one, it's useful there. But, this example no. I understand you might be in an area where Richard is the only black guy, but is it necessary? If he was white, would you not just say a guy called Richard round the corner has invited us, and then go to his house? I guess I don't understand the need.

I suppose, after going to the barbecue he would no longer be "the black guy" - hopefully.

Also completely not okay to call a British born Carribean person "African".

Interesting thread.

I personally tend to use "half-Chinese" for my dd as it seems most accurate and informative but I do appreciate its quite hard for people to know what to say and would be chilled about it. I will explain DHs "parents are from..." if someone expresses interest or curiosity. People do comment when it's just me and Dd as we are so different in terms of hair and skin and I don't mind at all if its friendly/well-meaning.

It's potentially a bit confusing as people could think Chinese could refer to either ethnicity or nationality though.

She tends to pick mixed-Asian on forms and will sometimes describe herself as Asian. Think this is because East Asians are more frequently represented on American tv. Also YouTube is a factor.

I think the term East Asian could be quite helpful but I've never really heard it used in daily life. Am not really keen on person of colour bec seems to have american politics attached. Mixed race is ok. BAME ok too in formal settings (hospitals etc) but not really a term you'd hear in the supermarket.

Richard is the only black guy, but is it necessary?

Be kind of making an issue out of skin colour not to use the most obvious descriptor, no? Why wouldn’t DH make it clearer to me who had invited him if he can?
Of course he would be referred to my his name after the conversation.

“Be kind of making an issue out of skin colour not to use the most obvious descriptor, no? Why wouldn’t DH make it clearer to me who had invited him if he can? ”
Yep- fair enough.

I am so confused.

Poster saying use ethnicity now - how do you use that? White people are simply called white right? What is a white person's ethnicity? Is white an ethnicity?

Obvious to you Frisson, what does "black" even mean apart from not obviously European ? As I said it means different things to different people and is ultimately a lazy way of describing someone.

So if someone refers to themselves using the P word or the N word, people just take them at face value?

White people might be
White British
Irish
Traveller
Mediterranean
Eastern European
etc

Or mixed of course

P word ?

Just out of interest, I even wonder if the phrase fair enough has racist connotations? So many phrases do.

Another example of when I’ve used Black and mixed race to described people is when I’ve been talking to another white mother with a mixed black/white child. I recommended some dance classes that her son might enjoy, told her that the teachers are black and mixed race.

Was that convo a problem?

Yes Ds's god father describes himself as a "dirty Paki"and DH (who he has known for 25 years) does that same. I doubt he'd do that at the doctor's surgery to be honest.

So if someone refers to themselves using the P word or the N word, people just take them at face value?

If you are an ageing U.S rap artist referring to another ageing U.S rap artist then by all means drop all the N-words your vernacular will allow for.

Be kind of making an issue out of skin colour not to use the most obvious descriptor, no? Why wouldn’t DH make it clearer to me who had invited him if he can?
Of course he would be referred to my his name after the conversation.

Yeah, I think that's fair enough. :)

And, I think the reason that I question it is because of my experience. I'm referred to as the black/chinese/whatever woman, even in work settings, for way longer than should be necessary. Even if I'm the only person doing my role and it's quite prominent, I can still be called in this manner. It's so common!

Not in the slightest Fission as I'd prefer my DD's dancing teacher to not ask "where's she from, no where's she really from".