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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was I racist?

161 replies

tweetyfinch · 18/04/2019 00:41

So I recently got into a really pointless argument with a friend of a friend. We were both drunk at the time. This was the first time I had met fof.

Anyways, we got on to the topic of me getting a recent promotion in work. He retorted that I only got this promotion because my workplace is trying to have more working class women in top jobs. Confused

This really pissed me off so I said to him (his parents are Indian), that’s so not true; how would you feel if I said you only got your job because your corporation wanted more brown people?

(Yes I know I shouldn’t have said this but I was offended and it was jussive)

Anyways the night moved on and we were a bit frosty but ok by the end.

Fast forward 3 months later; I go to my friend’s party and get introduced to friend of friend again, and their shared friendship group. I could see two women whispering about me on the sofa but ignored it, thought they were likely wondering who I was. Later on in a chat someone quite forwardly asked me “are you quite right wing too?” er no!

The night continues and someone whispers to me that the friend of the friend was telling everyone I was a racist! WTF. So now an entire flat of professionals whom I may need to deal with in future think I’m some sort of racist.

Wht makes it worse is that my friend knew he was telling people!

OP posts:
waterygrass · 18/04/2019 08:43

I have a friend whose family originate from India and she describes herself as brown

RainbowWaffles · 18/04/2019 08:44

He was being utterly sexist and rude, you did absolutely nothing wrong and there isn’t even a hint of racism in what you said. I imagine he has twisted the conversation a little to make you look worse. I would have a word with the mutual friend to make your position absolutely clear and see if you can work out what all the drama is over. I probably would have been minded to ask the fof on what basis he has been telling people I am racist too. It’s quite a label and you don’t want to let it go unchallenged even if you can distance yourself from the group. It seems so unfair that he was a dick and now you are being made to look bad.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 18/04/2019 08:51

I dont think the sentiment of what you said was racist however you used a word that is not really acceptable in the heat of the moment.

However what he said sounds positively sexist and horrible and the fact he has spread rumours says more about him than you.

I'm not sure what the way out of this situation is. Hopefully when people get to know you they will see it's not true. Could you speak to your friend and ask him to set the record straight with a few people? Not to take sides but just accurately report what was said, as it sounds like the other guy may have embellished a bit

Aprillygirl · 18/04/2019 08:52

I'm sorry but that ain't no friend. Bad enough that he belittled your promotion so horribly,but then to go running round moaning about your comment to everyone,letting them think you're a racist is bang out of order. I bet he didn't tell them about his sexist comment that led to your remark did he? Your 'crime' is that you may have worded what you said a bit clumsily but his is that he is a spiteful.vindictive,sexist little cry baby who doesn't deserve your friendship.

Dinosforall · 18/04/2019 08:55

Jussive = justified (say it fast)

yossell · 18/04/2019 08:55

Very surprising to me that some people consider 'brown' racist. Extremely 'woke' people discuss the problems of racism using 'white', 'black' and 'brown.' Of course, there may be good reasons for thinking that all these words should be scrapped but, at the moment, it seems a massive overreaction to say that the use of these terms are racist or indicate racism.

OP, I'm completely on your side. You did nothing wrong. You didn't even assert that he only got his job because of his skin colour (which would have been an unpleasant , and possibly racist thing to say) - you only used an analogy to bring home to him how his words were offensive and belittling.

Inadvertentlybrilliant · 18/04/2019 08:57

There was nothing at all racist in what you said. I did wonder about the word ' brown' as I've never particularly heard it used. However, from the responses, it is clearly used by people who have that colour skin so is totally acceptable and not racist.

He was offensive in suggesting you didn't get promoted on your own merits.

Your 'friend" isn't much of one for allowing him to spread the malicious gossip about you. I'd drop them like a ton of bricks.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 18/04/2019 08:58

you used a word that is not really acceptable in the heat of the moment.
I’m fascinated that anyone thinks this. Who told you that “brown” is offensive and racist?

Persimmonn · 18/04/2019 09:05

What?! That wasn’t racist. He made a sexist comment about you and your class. You gave an example of how it was wrong to suggest that. You need to bring this out in the open with him preferably in public to set him straight. What an arsehole. I bet he’s doing it on purpose to better his career or whatever.

BlooperReel · 18/04/2019 09:15

No you were not racist, and to be honest I don't think your comparison was wrong. He is a twat.

RainbowWaffles · 18/04/2019 09:15

Re: brown, I know many brown people of Indian and Pakistani descent who refer to themselves and others as brown so I consider your use of it to be uncontroversial. They are all 30’s/40’s though and maybe young people have a different way of looking at it. There are some things older women wouldn’t consider sexist that younger people would.

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking · 18/04/2019 09:15

Well, the chap in this scenario really played his stereotype of a sexism card didnt he?

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking · 18/04/2019 09:15

Well, the chap in this scenario really played his stereotype of a sexism card didnt he?

Surfingtheweb · 18/04/2019 09:18

The word brown is not racist. He was sexist you used poor language. He's bang out of order

edgeofheaven · 18/04/2019 09:21

It's funny because all the brown people on here are saying it's fine (it's only racist if the context it's used in is racist). And yet you've still got loads of non-brown people insisting it's a racist term.

You have no idea of the racial background of the people here saying it's not OK to use the term.

I agree with PP that we don't have any idea if it's the guy himself who's said OP is racist or if that's other people's interpretation of what happened. It's not clear in the OP if it was only the two of them in the conversation or if it was overheard by others at the time.

Honestly your "friend" doesn't sound great either and if I were you maybe better to just distance from this social group for the time being if they're all gossiping about you.

Oakenbeach · 18/04/2019 09:23

He was sexist you used poor language

If “brown” isn’t racist, how was it poor language!? Genuinely baffled. Confused

thequeenoftheandals · 18/04/2019 09:24

No, you were not racist.
There was no malice or rudeness in what you said to "F"OF - he just couldn't take your (quite right) retort back to him.
I would also definitely pull him up on this comment, how dare he spread rumours about you and reassess friendship with middle man.

FWIW, I am British Indian and I always say I am brown.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 18/04/2019 09:27

You have no idea of the racial background of the people here saying it's not OK to use the term.
Yes, but lots of people who find it unremarkable have said they are brown.

DoubtOfTheOrdinary · 18/04/2019 09:30

I’m brown. I would find it far more racist if people were too scared to call me brown. Fuck that noise. For reals.

This x1000
What's racist is when people think being brown is some terrible, unmentionable shame that they need to politely ignore.

BertrandRussell · 18/04/2019 09:32

My understanding is that some BAME people refer to themselves as brown in the same way that some gay people refer to themselves as queer. The comedian Nish Kumar calls himself brown. I probably wouldn’t use it myself- it seems to me to be something you can name yourself but it’s not for others to name you that.

It’s important to remember that Mumsnet is the home of black gollywog collectors, so I wouldn’t necessarily take all the statements on here at face value.

edgeofheaven · 18/04/2019 09:34

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis I am an ethnic minority, although not South Asian, and I am almost positive that how anyone would take the usage of the term "brown" or "black" in the midst of an argument depends entirely on context and tone.

The way OP tells the story is that this Indian man out of nowhere said she was only hired for being working class, which if true he sounds like a massive twat. But then he's friends with her friend and seems to have a lot of support from the rest of the group. Which makes me wonder what really happened and how they ended up at the point slinging socioeconomic/racial/ethnic comments in the first place.

totallywired · 18/04/2019 09:35

You have no idea of the racial background of the people here saying it's not OK to use the term.

Well everyone who has identified themselves as being black/brown on here has said they think it's fine, no one who has said it is racist has said they're a POC. I think that tends to suggest it's white people saying it's racist.

The op didn't say the man got a promotion because of his skin colour she only used it as a comparison to highlight his sexist/classist comment.

My husband is white/afro carribean and generally describes himself as brown, not a reclaiming a bad word kind of way, more in a it's what feel accurate to him. His skin is brown after all, why would that be unmentionable?

BossAssBitch · 18/04/2019 09:39

Nope you’re not racist, OP.

The guy is a sexist cunt tho.

edgeofheaven · 18/04/2019 09:41

totallywired I’m black or brown (rather not be more specific) so you’re wrong about that.

Henrysmycat · 18/04/2019 09:41

Well, from “brown” to being a member of the KKK and Britain First there’s a massive difference. You should have this out in the open in front of people with him because these labels in the workplace stick and never come out. If you are in the same line of work, these people might have a say in your future, directly or indirectly.
I was privy to a comment “she was sleeping with everyone in my old company and that caused problems amongst the men”. I knew of the woman and it was sour grapes of someone who fancied her but she wouldn’t sleep with him. I cut him short in front of the boss taking the decision for defamation. We were building a team at the time and boss was asking for our opinions. Unfortunately, it’s very male dominated and everything needs to be nipped in the bud. Don’t leave it.