Was I racist?

[tweetyfinch]

So I recently got into a really pointless argument with a friend of a friend. We were both drunk at the time. This was the first time I had met fof.

Anyways, we got on to the topic of me getting a recent promotion in work. He retorted that I only got this promotion because my workplace is trying to have more working class women in top jobs.

This really pissed me off so I said to him (his parents are Indian), that’s so not true; how would you feel if I said you only got your job because your corporation wanted more brown people?

(Yes I know I shouldn’t have said this but I was offended and it was jussive)

Anyways the night moved on and we were a bit frosty but ok by the end.

Fast forward 3 months later; I go to my friend’s party and get introduced to friend of friend again, and their shared friendship group. I could see two women whispering about me on the sofa but ignored it, thought they were likely wondering who I was. Later on in a chat someone quite forwardly asked me “are you quite right wing too?” er no!

The night continues and someone whispers to me that the friend of the friend was telling everyone I was a racist! WTF. So now an entire flat of professionals whom I may need to deal with in future think I’m some sort of racist.

Wht makes it worse is that my friend knew he was telling people!

Absolutely not racist op, good on you for calling out a sexist pig.

Nowadays a lot of people use the word “brown” to describe themselves although personally I don’t use it unless I know them very well and know that’s the word they use. What you said was completely acceptable. I would take serious issue with the accusation and ask your “friend” to support you in correcting such a horrible rumour.

Not racist. My bestie is Indian and refers to herself as brown. She doesn't like being referred to as black because she's not!

No you weren't racist. He sounds awful.

Not racist. I'm brown. I'm also black depending on the context. My children are brown too and that's how we describe them in this house because they're too mixed to be much else. My Indian friends call themselves brown too. What's sad here is that no matter what policies are put in place most companies are run by white middle class middle aged men, so you're both minorities blaming each other for something you've both suffered from. This is how the status quo remains.

Plenty of people now use ‘brown’.

OP, can you talk to your friend about this?

Thanks for all the responses. It’s interesting to see different people’s opinions on word choice.

My ex-bf of many years was Indian and he called himself brown. I have many friends from uni that are either indian or by descent and every single one of them would call themselves brown. So it’s, pretty surprising that people think it’s a really outdated term!!

At the end of the day, I think there was some sort of jealousy involved too. He’d apparently gone for similar promotions (work in same sector) and not got it.

I’ve definitely decided to cool off any conmections I had with that group. The friend is someone I’ve known for years too!

Brown is best avoided unless you're actually describing someone's skin colour rather than their race.

This. I definitely avoid it as a term. If you think it's fine, try it out on Twitter and see where it gets you. The point was a valid one, the way it was expressed was problematic. It reminds me of people I know who still refer to the "the blacks" and can't even be bothered to add any reference to the fact they're referring to humans no they don't mean a rugby team

I’ve found this thread really interesting. I’m shocked at how many posters identify as and are not offended at the term “brown”. It’s not something I would ever have said. I work in a school and we have a robust anti-bullying policy which covers racism, homophobia, transphobia etc. I’m fairly sure if a student called another student “brown” they’d be reprimanded. It seems that this might be OTT if these posts are anything to go by.

Out of interest, is anybody reading this thread who is darker-skinned and who WOULD be offended by the term?

I’m mixed race with Indian family, and we/they have no issue with brown

I have an Indonesian friend who calls herself yellow but I doubt any casual observers could get away with that...

I've got to take your word for who said what.

You have to think about who and what and how it was said.

The guy of Indian origin may be a twat. But I think you must be too if this has gone to this extent...

I’m brown. I have no problem with anything the OP said.

OP, I don’t think you were racist. You were pointing out a parallel between societal inequalities to combat this person’s sexism. If this comes up again, say that.

I’m Indian and call myself brown. My dh is mixed race black/European and he also refers to himself as brown as that’s his colour.

I know a few ethnicities who refer to themselves as brown as they’re not white and not black. South American’s, Asians, Africans to name a few.

It's not great. I mean, if you'd said "yellow people" describing dh that would sound racists to me but there's more history behind using "yellow" as a derogatory term, so.

no I don't think you were, that was a very spiteful thing for him to say, even if you thought that why say it out loud?

I think you need new friends - they all sound fucking ridiculous! “Are you right wing too?” Jesus wept!

Well the friend, was male and was possibly agreeing that females get jobs because they are female. Hence the 'racist' comment from you trumps the 'sexist' comment from his friend. When it comes to jobs people are, understandably, hugely competitive and if they are arrogant enough will always come up with a reason why they didn't get it.
I would just ignore the racist slur. Many people do have racist views and would never mention it. And unless they know the details probably won't take sides.

I had to look it up, but "jussive"

One of my lovely friends has mixed raced children and calls them brown, I’ve seen it on here too. I wasn’t aware there was anything wrong with that?

is a grammatical mood of verbs for issuing orders, commanding, or exhorting (within a subjunctive framework).

Press post too soon. Grammatical moods include things like dative, nominative, etc.

Brown people is becoming common parlance to refer to people who are not white and not black. It's a bit 'woke trendy' so lots of people might not appreciate the use and I wouldn't use it myself about someone unless they used it themself first.

Did he call you racist to your face? Then how do you know he was the one who called you racist?

He likely retold the story and was told by someone else your comment was racist due to the other things you have previously said to people. This happens more times than you think as the people who racist comments are made about don't automatically think that individuals comments are racist but taken together with what others know about them and their pattern of behaviour their racism is pointed out.

I know who still refer to the "the blacks" and can't even be bothered to add any reference to the fact they're referring to humans

That way of talking is very obviously racist, but when I was young that was the term that Afro-Americans asked us to use.

Lord, Where do you get that race is more oppressed than sex? Class comes into it too. Heirachy of oppression helps no one, solidarity does.
Your friend should have intervened, don't argue politics with strangers drunk. You were both rude but not particularly racist.

@Chouetted I think its all in the intention. I don't think calling people 'brown' would go down well in work policies but amongst friends I don't see it as a big deal. Its completely about the context. For the record, I don't really like the word black cos it seems very ... I don't know... no-one has a black skin colour! I cringe when I have to use it! I try and just sat the specific nationality instead. These terms are so personal and specific in meaning and so I can contradict myself in one sentence and the next!

I think you can tell if someone is racist regardless as to what language they use!!