Was I racist?

[tweetyfinch]

So I recently got into a really pointless argument with a friend of a friend. We were both drunk at the time. This was the first time I had met fof.

Anyways, we got on to the topic of me getting a recent promotion in work. He retorted that I only got this promotion because my workplace is trying to have more working class women in top jobs.

This really pissed me off so I said to him (his parents are Indian), that’s so not true; how would you feel if I said you only got your job because your corporation wanted more brown people?

(Yes I know I shouldn’t have said this but I was offended and it was jussive)

Anyways the night moved on and we were a bit frosty but ok by the end.

Fast forward 3 months later; I go to my friend’s party and get introduced to friend of friend again, and their shared friendship group. I could see two women whispering about me on the sofa but ignored it, thought they were likely wondering who I was. Later on in a chat someone quite forwardly asked me “are you quite right wing too?” er no!

The night continues and someone whispers to me that the friend of the friend was telling everyone I was a racist! WTF. So now an entire flat of professionals whom I may need to deal with in future think I’m some sort of racist.

Wht makes it worse is that my friend knew he was telling people!

Brown is best avoided unless you're actually describing someone's skin colour rather than their race.

Which, to be fair, it sounds like you were.

I can see why he made the assumption though. Awkward.

The descriptions brown, black, white. Working class people say these things to each other all the time. It's common usage.

He and the rest of your colleagues sound like out of touch, sanctimonious, middle class bores. Ignore them.

“Jussive”?

Are you bollocks racist. Sounds like a silly goady twat this guy.

Quite a lot of progressive people use 'brown' to refer to Asian/Indian people, often in a discussion where they are distinguishing between white people, black people (by which they mean African/Caribbean people) and brown people, while other progressive people would say POC/People of Colour and think that usage is more 'correct'. And some people in the UK would say BAME (Black and Minority Ethnic). All those terms are used by people trying not to be or sound racist.

I think this man sounds like a nasty, self-righteous, sexist stirrer. And I don't think you were racist, but he's clearly determined to cause trouble for you.

Afraid the best time to deal with it was at the time. (ie challenging him on calling you a racist) willing to bet that it’s not the first time he’s made a sexist comment or been a malicious gossip so the people present would probably not be surprised.

I’m guessing the “friend” is actually a work colleague not a friend.

@Iboogy I just meant to reassure the OP. And yes it makes a difference I am brown. And no I am not trying to 'represent' a group of people or suggest homogeneity.

Is brown really a racist term? Surely it’s no different from saying white or black? I’ve heard many people use it to distinguish between people of AC origin and those from India/Pakistan. To me it’s better than the catch all, ‘Indian’. And saying Asian never sits right with me because Asian encompasses a vast range of people from Japanese to Chinese to Indian to Iraqi.

@docusDiplo Now this is where it gets confusing for me, because you didn't say you were brown - you said you were Indian. I've have thought it was (very) racist to equate the two.

I think the OP calling this guy out on sexism/classism was completely right.

His comment was vile. I don't blame her for being furious.

Unfortunately, I think in her anger, she said something very wrong. I'm noting the debate above. But this wasn't some university debating team/the most cerebral posters of MN. I think this was an ill-judged comment, especially so because they were in a confrontation.

This man has taken her words out of context and used them against her.

That's awful
But she chose to use those words.

If I'm at a party and someone comes up and whispers in my ear "see that woman standing over there by the drinks, she said how would you feel if I said you only got your job because your corporation wanted more brown people" then I would assume that woman was a racist. (I copied and pasted what was written in the OP). That statement sounds very racist.

Hopefully, this guy's such a twunt he'll shoot himself in the foot. But in the meantime, he's able to do the OP harm by using HER OWN WORDS (which no-one MADE her use) against her.

In my opinion talking about him being brown was wrong.. you didn't like what he said so why are you surprised when he didn't like what you said?

Oh ffs...is this a joke?! Racist?? Hardly. You were making a comparison to his remark....if you honestly feel the need to explain yourself, then do so.
People are taking racism to a whole new level...you cannot mutter a word about different coloured skin..why? It makes no difference to me, I have friends who are black, brown, whatever...I am white, they are brown...who cares?! I have said they are black/brown and I make references to me being white ...doesn't mean I'm racist. I'm simply saying what it is.
This post is ridiculous!

I’m brown. I would find it far more racist if people were too scared to call me brown. Fuck that noise. For reals.
Also it isn’t just Asian people, but also mixed race and Latino people who call themselves brown. I just love the people on this thread trying sooo hard to be progressive. The 90s called and all that..

I don’t think what you said was racist. I’m in Canada and have many friends from India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. They all refer to themselves as brown and take no offence when I use that term either. Perhaps it depends on where you are, because it isn’t considered racist here.

If you're racist he's sexist. He's also a rude dick.

I think he fancied you and is seeking your attention.
Of course you weren't being racist. But he was being a dick.

I don't think you should have used the term "brown," your general response was fine but he might have been offended by that term. As you don't know him well you couldn't be sure if he'd be happy with it or not.

Why is saying "brown" racist? So now you cannot say someone is "black" or "white"?

This country is pc mad. And your 'friend' is bitchy and you should not trust him.

He was sexist/classist you were racist Some people have lost sight of what racism actually is.

What he said was really offensive too because he wasn't just using an analogy, he was actually saying you didn't get the job on your own merits, so he was really insulting you. You weren't saying that BAME only get jobs because of their ethnic backgrounds, but in fact that it would be offensive to suggest this.

I think it does depend on who you mix with as to which terminology you realise is offensive. Sometimes we take a while to catch up. I have a friend who has never said anything deliberately offensive about people of different ethnic origin, and didn't use it in a negative way, but she did used to use the word coloured. I told her in the end it wasn't an acceptable term any more. She just hadn't caught up with acceptable terminology, was mortified, and has never used it since.

If someone had told you it was not an acceptable term and you carried on using it, that would show you had no sensitivities to people of different ethnic backgrounds. The fact that he didn't call you out on it at the time but used it to spread rumours about you afterwards suggests that he just wanted to hit out at you for calling him out on his sexism/classism. I'm not sure why it's okay for him to say something that could be construed as misogynistic either.

Can you not bring it out into the open? If anyone else accuses you of being right wing, asks them why they thought so? If they explain you can then say you're mortified that it was unacceptable term and you would never have used it if you had known.

You weren’t being racist at all. I don’t know how you backtrack from this. Maybe ask people what has actually been said by him and explain your side. It’s very unfair people have just believed him. Who knows what he has actually said? I doubt he told people the context of your comment or what he initially said.

I don’t think so. It was a clumsy thing to say but he had also been very rude to you, and in the context of the conversation it should have been clear you weren’t being racist.

I haven't lived in an English speaking country for many's the long year, and I'm a mottled pink colour with a golden brown dd and dgd. Personally I really hate the term Person of Colour, even if it is currently the only thing people are allowed to say and brown just sounds descriptive to me.

He was being a sexist pig but you could have maybe phrased it better. Something like due to your ethnicity or heritage would have been better,

I don't think it makes you a racist, just maybe used the wrong words, which is easy to do, it's a minefield. But he was coming after you, so I don't think whatever you said, you'd have won here.

Sometimes you need to know when to walk away.

And saying Asian never sits right with me because Asian encompasses a vast range of people from Japanese to Chinese to Indian to Iraqi.

@TheWaiting but surely saying “European” is also a catch-all for a wide range of people and nobody gets offended by that? Likewise “black”, “white” etcetera.

Also OP - what does “jussive” mean? Genuine question - I’ve never come across that term before.