AIBU to think his ex-wife-son are taking us for too much

[Shesonlyworth30]

Long time lurker, first time poster. It’s a long one so apologies in advance.

Been with my DF for almost 7 years, have a 3 (almost 4) yr old and getting married in the summer.

DF was married before (to C - she was also married before and had 2 other sons (both older) and has one son with DF (16 this year) who lives with C in Scotland. DF has never not paid for his son, he even chose to have it deducted straight from wages when CSA were in charge. He didn’t trust C and wanted there to be a proper paper trail if ever she decided to say she never received anything. Since we have been together the payments have been just shy of £200. I have never had a problem with him paying for his son.

C has never let DF speak to son or see him since he was 3. She tried to kill herself a few times (once when pregnant and once when son was born) so DF took parental responsibility for her 2 older sons and their own while she was sectioned. They split up when son was 3 and she told a court it would be detrimental to her mental health to allow DF custody and access. Court agreed. (DF living in north of England at this point and C in Scotland)

Fast forward to last year. CMS took over from CSA and they re-assesses him and told him his payments would need to be £500 a month. We argued that this was a massive increase. They said it was because of what he earned. However they were taking overtime into account which we said was wrong. His overtime was not guaranteed and he did that to pay for our wedding/holidays etc. They said they were right. He went to court and while the judge was sympathetic said there was nothing they could do. He even tried showing them that if he had a basic month, with no overtime, paid the mortgage (a not unreasonable £660) gas, elec etc he physically would not have enough to pay the CMS. They didn’t care. They don’t take household expenses into account. He then said he had another child to support (ours) they said they had allowed £30 pcm for her. £30 bloody quid. That’s not even a day in nursery.

Because C doesn’t want him to know where she is she wants everything doing through the CMS so he has to pay their admin charge (extra £83 pm) and now we are in a vicious cycle. He worked more OT last year to pay her and still have money for our savings but because he earned more he now has to pay more this year £634 pcm!!!!

I’m fed up with it. My daughter doesn’t have £634 a month spent on her from her dad. I expected his payments to go up but AIBU to think this is grossly unfair and there is a fundamental flaw in this thinking. Surely if CMS believe 2 children should cost £664 then that money should be split between the 2?

His son can leave school at any time now but we know she won’t tell us so this could be ongoing for another 4 years because there isn’t a doubt in my mind she’ll make son stay at school if she’s getting £550 odd quid a month. Oh and she’s back with her first husband!! 🤬🤬

Also curious as to why your DF (?) has not seen his son in 13 years. This seems highly relevant here.

As far as access goes, she moved to Scotland and didn’t tell him where she was. His son was 3 when he left and he didn’t want to cause lots of upset for him when he thought about access again his son was clearly older but wouldn’t have known DF from Adam and logistically wouldn’t have had easy access. Of course he could have made the time but the nature of his job is being on call (and at the time was 2 weeks on call, 2 weeks off call) and working all over the country. He also didn’t want to have to cancel/change plans last min and give her any more ammo

If someone took my child away from me I would fight until there was no breath left in my body to get them back. Nothing would stop me. I can’t even imagine how I would survive without my child.

I have never yet heard a story about one of these alienated fathers that doesn’t ultimately boil down to the fact that they just can’t be fucking arsed.

If you are struggling. He could leave his job and find some thing pt and maybe you go to work full time? His wages would be recalculated for cm payments so would pay less.

Your child is roughly the age his son was when last he saw him.

And you’re complaining - how would you feel if he was never going to make the effort to see your child after tomorrow?

Hell would freeze over before I would abandon my child and not even try to see them for 13 years. His excuses are weak OP.
People who don’t have anything to do with her can’t know she’s “playing the system”
It’s not unfair that he works hard to pay for both his children.
The long term? I’d be looking to increase your earnings in case yours is the next family he walked away from. Agree completely with Gunpowder. See above.

Sorry I’ve just seen your update.

Your DF is a child abandoner.

That explains the resentment- he doesn’t care about his son. Why should you.

Yeah I know, I'm not stupid, I have kids and I know what they cost. The ex should be contributing half as well so if OP DP is paying £634 a month, there's no way the ex is matching anywhere near that.

Well I disagree with the first part because it doesn't work like that, CMS don't take the highest earners salary and expect the lower earners to match that it goes off what the NRP earns and how much they see their child. The fact he sees his 0 nights a week will impact payments. Just think OP if he was involved in his life you'd need a bigger house and more sore money for activities, clothes, food etc when he visits. Can't believe you have the nerve to lambast the woman who has alone raised the child your fiancée abandoned. And you're moaning about a registry office wedding. Jesus

What I really object to is the ex-wife-son-are taking us for too much.

A lot has been said about how much it costs to bring up a child, so I won't add to that, but you seem to be blaming the child as much as the ex-wife here. I am so glad there is no contact with the Father, as it eliminates contact with the resentful step mother too.

Ahhh there we go. He didn't do anything because he was busy working. He got on with life and was happy to pay 2400 pound a year to be able to move on.

Your child together benefits from the rest of his wage. They aren't saying your child should get 30 pound. They are assuming that the rest of his wage houses and supports your child.
Do you think maintenance should be split in half if another child comes along.

There’s something not quite right here. Based on your OH’s income he should be paying apx £340 a month. Either he’s doing a shit load of overtime, meaning his salary almost doubles OR he’s paying back maintenance arrears.

His son was 3 when he left and he didn’t want to cause lots of upset for him when

This is wet nonsense and you know it. He didn't want to cause upset so walked away from his child? He simply couldn't be arsed and you know it. You have more worries than how much he pays in maintenance, you should be more concerned that you're marrying a man who walks away when times get hard and simply shrugs his child off like a dirty coat. I'd find it hard to marry someone who was so laissez-faire about a beloved child.

He must have been underpaying massively for there to be such a sharp increase.

He knows she has been playing the system for years. - Particularly heartless in view of ex's suicide attempts.

lisamac

It costs around £1500 pm to run my house pay bills, pay for DS clothes travel activities birthday, xmas, pocket money, phone, food not to mention the couple of quid here and fiver there. A £600 contribution would be fair.

I just love the whinge about the overtime taking him away from the precious new child two nights a week, when he hasn’t seen his son in 13 years.

He either has significant arrears or he’s doing a fuckton of overtime.

OP, this lot are just going to keep tearing you to shreds. Get the payment appealed again, and if all else fails tell your husband to go part-time and get a cash in hand job on the side.

I dont know what you all expect of the OP. You can onyl take what she's saying at face value but it's all "how dare you presume about the exes life, give us proof of how she lives, your husband is tricking you, the ex's siblings are wrong about her, mumsnet know better blah blah blah superiority ad nauseam". Very sisterly of you all.

tell your husband to go part-time and get a cash in hand job on the side.

That any woman could seriously suggest this. Wow. Words fail me

Tbh, calculating it on OT sucks, but if the judge approved it then there must be more to it.

Equally, I cannot see any court approving a 3 yr old staying with a mother who was 'mad as a box of frogs' over a loving and willing father, so again, there is more to that. Why is she so desperately keen for him not to know where she is?

This would all worry me greatly.

Great advice financially neglect the child as well as emotionally.

Excuses excuses excuses...

"It would have upset my son to have me in his life again" bullshit! If he was a consistent and supportive father that could only be a good thing

"He works shifts" many many nrps also work shifts/on call and are STILL in their child's life. Prior to my brother becoming his eldest's rp following the death of the mother he was nrp and he worked bonkers hours (police officer) he STILL made the effort with his son. I'm also from a military family/background and know plenty of nrps that work odd hours/shifts/on call who make the effort that's a pathetic excuse.

"Didn't want to change plans last minute and give her ammo" another excuse! All he needed to do was make a firm commitment to parenting his son and stick to it! Not hard!

"nights away from our daughter" oh puhlease! He's in your daughter's life - he has made NO effort to be in his sons life for 13 years!

"split, in my eyes, unequally between his children" on this we agree BUT in your daughters favour!

"nobody knows who they really married until they get divorced." So very true!

Op at one point he loved her, married her and had a child with her - and now he's treating her and the child like dirt. What makes you think he wouldn't do the same to you and your dd? Hint - he would!

"I have never yet heard a story about one of these alienated fathers that doesn’t ultimately boil down to the fact that they just can’t be fucking arsed." Or were abusive.

I'm the same - every single time I've heard or read of a deadbeat dick it's turned out they ARE deadbeats but tried to make out they weren't or they were abusive and hiding that!

We see it on mn an awful lot but I've seen it frequently in real life too.

Unless you want to be in exactly the same position as his ex with him begrudgingly paying maintenance if at all and not seeing your child ever then you will have to overlook any failings of his now or in the future, if he cheats, is lazy or abusive you will have big decisions to make because in all likelihood he will treat you exactly the same as he's treating his ex wife and son - it's also extremely likely he will blame you for everything.

I'm 46 I've lived a varied and wide experience of life and know people from a wide variety of backgrounds.

People don't change who they fundamentally are. At heart he is an irresponsible, deadbeat of a father who couldn't care less about any children he's not living with. People like that do not change.

Very sisterly of you all.

Some of us know he's talking crap. It wouldn't be very "sisterly" to ignore that....

Excellent advice there Nearlythere1, did you get that from the Deadbeat Dads Handbook?

@GunpowderGelatine not once have I MOANED about a registry office wedding. I chose it. So don’t bloody dare

As far as you women telling me she has ‘single-handly raised his son. No she was fucking someone else which is why he left, she then went on to someone else who she was with for years. She is now back with her first husband so has never been alone. Not ever.

And as far as everyone mentioning she has bills rent etc. Yes she has some but she has always been on benefits. She has never made a rent or council tax payment.

Yes he was working and yes he could have tried harder but he was younger then (25) no excuse I know. He did see a solicitor solicitor said it would be long winded and expensive. He was in England. Son in Scotland. Scottish law is wildly different. He couldn’t not do the call every 2 weeks it was in his contract for job and likewise whilst living in Blackpool he could have been called down to lands end at any time.

I know her brother and SIL and feel confident saying she’s lazy, she’s worked the system, and there isn’t a doubt in my mind she’s sitting there rubbing her hands with glee right about now.

I also know he has asked CMS and CSA for contact info for her. She has refused. He has been asking for years. God knows what she’s actually told her son about him.

Some of you people are vile and I sincerely hope you all practice what you preach and are never in a position where you feel your children are slightly wronged and treated unfairly. As I said in original post the CMS have allowed £30 pm for our daughter as if she was here or not he would still need a house pay bills etc. And as fa as CMS are concerned my salary shouldn’t even be considered. He has 2 children to support but they should be equal

Nearlythere your advice is illegal and despicable.