AIBU to think his ex-wife-son are taking us for too much

[Shesonlyworth30]

Long time lurker, first time poster. It’s a long one so apologies in advance.

Been with my DF for almost 7 years, have a 3 (almost 4) yr old and getting married in the summer.

DF was married before (to C - she was also married before and had 2 other sons (both older) and has one son with DF (16 this year) who lives with C in Scotland. DF has never not paid for his son, he even chose to have it deducted straight from wages when CSA were in charge. He didn’t trust C and wanted there to be a proper paper trail if ever she decided to say she never received anything. Since we have been together the payments have been just shy of £200. I have never had a problem with him paying for his son.

C has never let DF speak to son or see him since he was 3. She tried to kill herself a few times (once when pregnant and once when son was born) so DF took parental responsibility for her 2 older sons and their own while she was sectioned. They split up when son was 3 and she told a court it would be detrimental to her mental health to allow DF custody and access. Court agreed. (DF living in north of England at this point and C in Scotland)

Fast forward to last year. CMS took over from CSA and they re-assesses him and told him his payments would need to be £500 a month. We argued that this was a massive increase. They said it was because of what he earned. However they were taking overtime into account which we said was wrong. His overtime was not guaranteed and he did that to pay for our wedding/holidays etc. They said they were right. He went to court and while the judge was sympathetic said there was nothing they could do. He even tried showing them that if he had a basic month, with no overtime, paid the mortgage (a not unreasonable £660) gas, elec etc he physically would not have enough to pay the CMS. They didn’t care. They don’t take household expenses into account. He then said he had another child to support (ours) they said they had allowed £30 pcm for her. £30 bloody quid. That’s not even a day in nursery.

Because C doesn’t want him to know where she is she wants everything doing through the CMS so he has to pay their admin charge (extra £83 pm) and now we are in a vicious cycle. He worked more OT last year to pay her and still have money for our savings but because he earned more he now has to pay more this year £634 pcm!!!!

I’m fed up with it. My daughter doesn’t have £634 a month spent on her from her dad. I expected his payments to go up but AIBU to think this is grossly unfair and there is a fundamental flaw in this thinking. Surely if CMS believe 2 children should cost £664 then that money should be split between the 2?

His son can leave school at any time now but we know she won’t tell us so this could be ongoing for another 4 years because there isn’t a doubt in my mind she’ll make son stay at school if she’s getting £550 odd quid a month. Oh and she’s back with her first husband!! 🤬🤬

They don’t see her or know where she is either but have told me what he has said is true

So, no, they don't know anything because they haven't seen her in thirteen years. And neither has your "wonderful" fiancé who hasn't seen his son since he was three years old - shameful.

Either he doesn't give a shit and hasn't made any effort to see his child, or there's a very, very serious reason why he isn't allowed contact with his and child.

Think very, very carefully about marrying this man.

Oh dear. Good luck.

It doesn’t seem a lot of money for growing boys however I think it’s unfair that CMS are working his earnings out on calculations.
Then again if he is doing overtime every month then I would think it’s fair as obviously he has more money to contribute more.

Is there any way your able to appeal the amount and prove your partners earnings ? Before overtime ?

He could absolutely have continued to fight to see his son. Something sounds off here. Either he knew his ex had a strong enough case, even though no contact is rarely the outcome, or he couldn't be bothered.

No I can assure you he asked the CSA to deduct. He didn’t trust her. I’ve been with him while he has been on the phone. Because they deducted they have always had access to his P60 so know exactly how much he earned.

Very odd he had custody of his and her children when she was sectioned but was then banned from ever seeing them again. Has he tried for access since?

The admin fee is to encourage parents to sort maintenance out by themselves. You don't have to pay an admin fee if you pay directly into her bank account.

YABVU.

Whether or not she works has NO bearing whatsoever on what he pays for his son.

.... and I can assure you "disability benefits" are not given out for nothing!

@adaline

It’s her brother he hears things from his mother. But doesn’t want anything really to do with her

I don't understand why he's not seen his son? You can download the forms for £225 and self represent. (Too late now but he could have done this 10+ years ago?)

Has he ever tried to find his son via social media? Even if he doesn't know his son's name, does he know anyone who she's friends with and try to work out his new name etc? I'm not suggesting that he contacts his son out of the blue btw.

He didn’t trust C and wanted there to be a proper paper trail if ever she decided to say she never received anything. Bank transfer would create a paper trail and is used by parents like me with a private agreement.

With regards to the overtime, it's perfectly fair for C to get a percentage of that overtime. For it to suddenly go for £200 to £600 suggests a sudden massive pay rise or years of under paying catching up with him?

Good news is that there is an end date to the CM.

This is bullshit. You could not ask the CSA to deduct it directly from wages.

Yes, you could ask the CSA to deduct directly from wages. My exh did this, when they told him what he needed to pay, £420 month for two kids, he asked for them to take it out of his wages. It was done very quickly and worked for us for years till they changed the process.

If she is getting disability benefits then she is disabled (unless you have noticed they are very strict about who gets DB) so why are you being rude about the fact she doesn’t work?

And mad as a box of frogs about someone with mental health problems is frankly nasty.

Who knows what kind of life his son has and what difference that money makes.

She may have been managing with only £200 a month for years (because your DH didn’t need inform the CM company that he was now earning more) but no doubt subsidising what she uses for their son with her own benefits (which are specifically to help the disabled person remember).

£50 a week for a teenage boy he was paying? My teenage boys eat more food than that and a single pair of trainers costs more.

You see the money as lining her purse and because she was still keeping the kid alive with less she should just suck it up.

Sheesh OP.
Imagine he leaves you and then tells you to raise the child you share on the absolute minimum and hides the fact he earns more to avoid paying? What will you think then?

I can tell you for free at 16 I didn't need £600 worth of upkeep.

Oh, I'm certain you did. You needed a house to live in (which could have been smaller and cheaper without you), a bed to sleep in, furniture, heating, lighting, utility bills paid, transport, school uniforms, all the thousand everyday things that get paid for you on top of food and clothes. Just because you got a part time job to buy your own clothes and later made a contribution - you were still being subsidised in hundreds of other ways.

It makes me cross when it's assumed the father (or NRP) is paying for a few clothes or a bit of food and that can't possibly cost much. Whilst all the time the mother (or RP) is paying for the roof over their heads and the thousands of constant everyday expenses that constitute bringing up a child.

£200 on an income of 35k was far too low. And that’s not even accounting for overtime.

And you say he’s being doing OT to buy little extra things for you- why wouldn’t he want to do OT to buy little extra things for his son?

@whodafeck he was earning £20k up until 2 years ago

He asked to pay direct to her. She refused.

And at the end of the day, you chose to take a job on 9k less

Having to call the CMS every month because of a variable income must be annoying but being stubborn and not using a bank transfer has contributed to this mess too. (£83pm!)

So he significantly underpaid for at least a year.

No sympathy I’m afraid.

Give it 6 months of paying the extra (that's a huge hike!) then go back and ask them to reassess based on his wages if he isn't going to be doing a shit ton of overtime in the next 6 months. As for paying beyond 18, I'm sure you're entitled to proof that his ds is in higher education. What's the law about that in Scotland?

"His ex has never worked. Lived off benefits her whole life."

Also COMPLETELY irrelevant and NONE of your business. If she had serious mental illness that could be why.

Also the cms figure is a MINIMUM that is legally required. It's pathetic how low it's assessed and certainly doesn't take into account the actual costs of raising a child.

I'm not a homeowner - does £600 indicate a high mortgage?

"You've been led up the garden path.... majorly." Exactly what I'm thinking too.

I too don't believe it's the payee that can INSIST it be deducted from wages - that's far more likely when they've been avoiding paying. It's highly likely at least part of the amount is for backdated payments.

Took me almost a decade to get a deduction of earnings order applied to my ex.

Nearlythere you're talking rubbish. How much was the rent/mortgage for the home you were living in at 16? How much was the council tax? Utilities? Food? Toiletries? Cleaning products? Sanitary products? Medical products? Maintenance of fixtures and fittings? These are EASILY over £600 a month at today's prices - and note that's not including:

Clothes
Shoes
Haircuts
Transport
School uniform
School equipment
Books
Recreation...

"£400 more than she was getting before, so disposable income" NO you're at it! It's not disposable income it's to cover your partners share of the costs of raising HIS child which he has NO part in other than financially.

Weddings ARE a luxury however cheaply done they're not a requirement

Holidays are DEFINITELY a luxury.

Having more children is a CHOICE and a luxury.

You only have the word of a man who begrudges his own son a decent upbringing, and her brother and sil who ALSO haven't seen her for many years!

Stop slagging off someone you don't even know! It makes you look stupid, prejudiced and cruel!

"Because they deducted they have always had access to his P60 so know exactly how much he earned" they have access to his p60 no matter what he does they're part of hmrc. They would normally access this as part of an investigation instigated by the rp who believes that the NRP is underreporting their income ie LYING ABOUT IT!

You are being extremely disablist and very unpleasant about a woman you've never even met! Cut it out!

I get no maintenance. I have to have a house of a certain size to accommodate my kids, my electric bills and heating bills are higher, my car costs are more, I have to buy their clothes, and shampoo, and shower stuff, and the buggers have to get fed as well.

I can tell you for free at 16 I didn't need £600 worth of upkeep

So you lived for free, did you? It didn't cost your parents any money in rent, bills and food to keep you? You didn't need a bed, sheets, furniture, clothes, toiletries, school uniform?

I agree with you op.

We have a family member whose payment was worked out on gross Inc the previous years overtime. The overtime is never guaranteed and he's had to work more to afford to live as well (even though he can't afford somewhere to live) so his payment has just increased.

The ex seems to think she doesn't need to provide anything for them or work, even though both kids are in secondary school.

She makes them ask him for trainers, uniform, phones and contracts, clothes, school trips, the lot, while obstructing access. Which he pays for too.

The system is completely unfair in that respect in my opinion.