AIBU to think his ex-wife-son are taking us for too much

[Shesonlyworth30]

Long time lurker, first time poster. It’s a long one so apologies in advance.

Been with my DF for almost 7 years, have a 3 (almost 4) yr old and getting married in the summer.

DF was married before (to C - she was also married before and had 2 other sons (both older) and has one son with DF (16 this year) who lives with C in Scotland. DF has never not paid for his son, he even chose to have it deducted straight from wages when CSA were in charge. He didn’t trust C and wanted there to be a proper paper trail if ever she decided to say she never received anything. Since we have been together the payments have been just shy of £200. I have never had a problem with him paying for his son.

C has never let DF speak to son or see him since he was 3. She tried to kill herself a few times (once when pregnant and once when son was born) so DF took parental responsibility for her 2 older sons and their own while she was sectioned. They split up when son was 3 and she told a court it would be detrimental to her mental health to allow DF custody and access. Court agreed. (DF living in north of England at this point and C in Scotland)

Fast forward to last year. CMS took over from CSA and they re-assesses him and told him his payments would need to be £500 a month. We argued that this was a massive increase. They said it was because of what he earned. However they were taking overtime into account which we said was wrong. His overtime was not guaranteed and he did that to pay for our wedding/holidays etc. They said they were right. He went to court and while the judge was sympathetic said there was nothing they could do. He even tried showing them that if he had a basic month, with no overtime, paid the mortgage (a not unreasonable £660) gas, elec etc he physically would not have enough to pay the CMS. They didn’t care. They don’t take household expenses into account. He then said he had another child to support (ours) they said they had allowed £30 pcm for her. £30 bloody quid. That’s not even a day in nursery.

Because C doesn’t want him to know where she is she wants everything doing through the CMS so he has to pay their admin charge (extra £83 pm) and now we are in a vicious cycle. He worked more OT last year to pay her and still have money for our savings but because he earned more he now has to pay more this year £634 pcm!!!!

I’m fed up with it. My daughter doesn’t have £634 a month spent on her from her dad. I expected his payments to go up but AIBU to think this is grossly unfair and there is a fundamental flaw in this thinking. Surely if CMS believe 2 children should cost £664 then that money should be split between the 2?

His son can leave school at any time now but we know she won’t tell us so this could be ongoing for another 4 years because there isn’t a doubt in my mind she’ll make son stay at school if she’s getting £550 odd quid a month. Oh and she’s back with her first husband!! 🤬🤬

OP, this lot are just going to keep tearing you to shreds. Get the payment appealed again, and if all else fails tell your husband to go part-time and get a cash in hand job on the side

That could have been written by my ex-husband's girlfriend because that's exactly what he does to ensure I get less than £100 a month in maintenance. I am a parent/carer. They are a pair of arseholes.

OP, your DP is leading you up the garden path. I've been through the maintenance thing, represented myself in court for children's matters and the finances for my divorce. None of what you say adds up. Your comments about the boy's mother are disgraceful. You know nothing about her. The things my ex-husband has said about me are astonishing, none of them remotely true. However, it fits his narrative to justify his abandonment, lack of financial support for our DS, his affairs, his abuse. You are a naive idiot.

OP the ex wife and son aren't taking you for too much, they're simply receiving the amount that CSA has decided they are owed. The amount you claim your DP pays compared to what you claim he earns doesn't add up unless there is a fair degree of backpay owing. Also, there's no way a DF would be denied access to their child unless there is a significant risk to that DCs wellbeing. The ex's MH is irrelevant, unless that has been affected by actions of your ex that also pose a risk to the child.

Obviously you want to believe your DP, but you have to see that on the face of it, none of it adds up.

His excuses regards access are laughable. A friends sister was heartbroken that the court awarded access to her ex; a convicted drug dealer who had abused her. The fault here is his; he could have wrote, called etc. I think OP has had the light bulb moment and realised she's marrying a lying scumbag.

To be fair on OP, this must be a very hard thread to read especially as a first time poster.

She's been with her OH for 7 years so must know him quite well and whatever his past, age is happy that he is now a good partner and father hence being happy to marry him.

It would therefore be easy to just ignore the posts of total strangers and maybe that is indeed t b e best thing to do but at the same time, it must be hard now to ignore facts that shows he has lied about some things, for one that he chose to have maintenance taken from his pay as this is indeniably not the truth.

I hope you are OK OP and that this thread has not come to shatter things. Maybe it is best to forget about the financial aspect and maybe to try to encourage your oh to be totally truthful with you because you love him as your husband to be and father of your child.

She's been with her OH for 7 years so must know him quite well and whatever his past, age is happy that he is now a good partner and father hence being happy to marry him.

No woman knows the man she is marrying until she gets divorced. I use to think my ex’s ex was a bitch making lies about him until the same happened to me.

No woman knows the man she is marrying until she gets divorced
Indeed, but you can't stop moving your relationship forward and enjoy the happiness that goes with it just because you're bound to find something bad about your partner at a later date. And of course, the vast majority of couples still don't divorce.

The self delusion from op on this thread is shocking. I do agree that all children should be treated equally (why should younger children be penalized, sums should be spilt imo) but there is a lot about his story that doesn’t add up and all he is doing is paying a low minimum amount.

Open your eyes op. What he is telling you obviously isn’t true.

@swing - not vast majority who don’t get divorced. I think it’s about 50/50, no?

Also @swing there are some huge red flags here. Op should not ignore them.

OP If you split with him the £600 payment would be split equally so his dd would get £300 and his son would get £300. Can you honestly say that if you were single then you'd turn down £600 child maintenance as it was too much?

At the moment your dd is assumed to be £30 because your wages and the other 85% of your partner's wages would go on her.

Also @swing there are some huge red flags here. Op should not ignore them
I don't believe anyone can judge 'huge red herrings' from a few posts about someone we know nothing about. I do believe like many that OP's has lied to her about some things, but concluding there are huge red herrings, ou OP can know.

Regardless of the details and whether the dh has always been completely honest or not, over £600 maintenance per month for one child is huge, and I agree it's far too much.

The ex is obliged to provide a home for her child and herself, and to provide half the cost of raising a child. There is no way that one child costs £1200 every month to feed and clothe, even taking into account a contribution towards rent for that one child. That single child that OPs DH has to pay towards won't cost the mother any more in heating or bills than she already has to pay for herself and her other two children, especially if he's now old enough to be in secondary school. There may have been an argument for maintenance to be that much while the child was still too small for school or needed wraparound childcare, but that's not relevant here.

I agree, the CMS system is bollocks.

So what if s child doesn’t cost £600 in your world. But if the CMS says father has to pay just 15% of his salary towards HIs child then hard luck. 100% of my salary goes towards my kids and I’ve had to turn down promotions, extra shifts etc because I look after the kids 90% of the time. Who are we to say that one kid doesn’t cost £600 mth. I have to live in a 3 bed house in order to house my kids. Without them I could live in a one bed riverside apartment and the 10% they are with me they would sleep on airbeds. 3 bed house in SE England £300k vs 1 bed flat £175k.....already the £600 just meets the mortgage difference.

Not sure why this thread is still going as OP has gone and I don’t blame her.

A parent should pay for half the costs of their child so £600 is a lot for half the costs, no child costs £1200 a month?

We don’t know OP’s story, it’s not always as easy as going to court to get access for a child, it sounds as though the mother took off with the child and moved far away not telling them where they were. Yes there’s a chance the father is useless or abusive which is why she moved away but we don’t know this, we don’t know that it isn’t the other way around yet people are judging.

The child is now 16 and in 2 years time there will be nothing to pay towards their upkeep. If OP is struggling money wise then I think all they can do is ditch the over time and get the case looked at again by child support.

I do see both sides as I have been in both sides, currently I’m the single mum receiving hardly anything from my dc’s father, I’m not asking for £600 (for 2 children) because I don’t believe that’s what they cost, I do believe that their father should be paying for half the costs for clothing and feeding them as well as any childcare. I currently can’t work full time because I can’t afford child care, my kids are disabled and need specialist child care.

If OP is struggling to support her/their own child then I can see why she’s frustrated, I have been there and watched my step children have things my children couldn’t have and it’s no fun. I had to say ‘no’ to school trips whilst step children would go abroad with school.

OP

It’s not “mum bashing” to point out that your DF is obliged to support his son, and that as income goes up then so does his contribution to his son. His working Over time should be to benefit both of his children, not just one.

I think you are focussing on the wrong thing here. Your DF is obliged to pay a proportion of his income towards the upkeep of his child- it matters not whether the resident parent is a pauper or a millionaire he would still have to pay the same amount. So focussing on his ex’s benefits/outgoings etc is totally irrelevant- it doesn’t matter!

As for the courts not granting access I am not sure you have the whole truth there. I would be surprised that they denied access to a good father who wanted to be involved in his son’s life

Sorry, posted to soon!

I would be surprised that the court would not only grant sole custody to your fiance’s Ex-wife but but also deny a parent any access at all and not disclose the child’s address to a reasonable, caring and responsible parent. I just don’t think it’s realistic, especially when you consider that father’s who have been perpetrators of domestic abuse still get access to the children because the court feels it’s in the child’s interest to have a relationship with both parents. So for your DF not be granted any access at all suggests things are not quite as straightforward as you have been told.

As for the CSA giving you her adress- of course they can’t do that. You could ask her family who your DF is in contact with, but my suspicion is your DF doesn’t want it and never really has.

Your DF could have fought harder to see his child, if it was important to him. My guess is it’s easier not to and he doesn’t care enough to put the hard work in so he just shrugs his shoulders and abandons his child OR he knows there is a very good reason why the court won’t grant him access to his son and do keeps well away. Probably so you and family/friends don’t ever know the whole truth. Either way I’d say his son deserves a better father.

The ex is obliged to provide a home for her child and herself, and to provide half the cost of raising a child. There is no way that one child costs £1200 every month to feed and clothe

Agreed. I said exactly this way back on the thread but I was told "food, heating, school uniform all adds up and it costs more than 1200 for older kids a month, bills blah blah blah" utter tosh. For a start, you don't have to buy school uniform every month and bills have to be paid anyway so add a bit extra onto bills. Some people on here would expect the ex husbands/partner to fully fund their child it seems.

CanIleaveitnow I said he was not a dedicated father. I was replying to all the women who claim that not one alienated father got that way through anything other than not caring or being abusive. You did not read my comment properly.

OP I'm actually a little concerned about you.
Even if you don't believe what everyone is saying, just look at the figures.
You know that with 1 child at home, to pay that much maintenance, he must be on £80k. Either he is and lying to you, or he has a shit load of arrears and is lying their you.
Before you get married, I urge you to look out for the CMS paperwork. They like sending out letters so he should have a lot.

@Lisamac Maintenance isn’t calculated though on the cost of raising that specific (or any general) child. It is calculated based on the nrp’s income, number of nights they have the child, other children they pay cm for, and any resident children. It’s an algorithm.

@Lovemusic33 not necessarily in two years. If he has arrears, which many are assuming he does, he will continue to pay this off. At the rate my ex is paying his arrears, he will be 74 by the time he's finished 🧐

Child maintenance isn't calculated based on how much a child costs to raise. If it did, even millionaires would only have to pay some kind of bare minimum poverty level rate. It's based on the parent's income.

A 1 bed flat around here costs about £500, a 2 bed house costs £650 so you can put a direct cost of £150 on housing the child
Maybe add on extra council tax, utilities etc £50
School dinners is £60 a month
Phone contract for a teenager is £15-20 a month
Pocket money for a teenager I think the average is about £50 a month
Food easily £200 a month for a teenager
Clothes/uniform etc again at adult shoe sizes etc and a mix of brands and supermarket stuff averages out over the year £100 a month
Birthday/Xmas presents £50 a month
Going out/cinema/etc £50 a month
Activities/music lessons/swimming etc £100 a month
Hair cut £5 a month for a boy - more for a girl
Toiletries/medicine etc £20 a month
School supplies - pens, paper, ink for printer, books etc £20 a month
Petrol for taxing the child around £50 a month
School trips averaged out probably £50 a month if they go on several day trips and one residential

That’s £975 and I’ve probably forgotten stuff
Of course you could probably spend less if you needed to and were on a low budget and you could spend way more of you brought all designer brands etc

Of course it should be based on the parents income, it wouldn’t be fair for the father to live in luxury and the child to be living in poverty

A lot of posters suggesting the father must earn a huge amount to pay such a large amount. I earn minimum wage working 40 hours a week I pay the recommended minimum of £350 a month if I paid fees it would be another £100 a month. The poster is probably earning less than £2k a month.