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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask those who have high earning partners......

469 replies

Hollypies · 16/04/2019 20:33

I’m shocked by the amount of women on MN with very high earning DP/DHs and I wonder, how did you meet and what is your life like? I can appreciate this is a little nosey, but after years of dating/being in relationships with men who are very low earners and with no ambitions in terms of their career....I’m very curious. I’ve always assumed that highly successful men/women usually mix with their own kind and meet an equally high earning spouse through their work or social circle... but thought it’d be interesting to ask!

OP posts:
Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/04/2019 09:54
Grin

Trouble is alaskan....I do read brexit posts that resonate with me

Both from leave and remain voters, i used to say it on some of the original threads...but that got boring, even for me!

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/04/2019 09:56

Even popping on to say 'SOME' is boring me...

I think thats my problem in life...short attention span Grin

BlueSkiesLies · 20/04/2019 10:00

Wow I’m actually finding myself agreeing with Xenia re wondering why women 95% of the time end up with a higher earning partner.

It is partly engrained sexism and female socialisation early on - it is desirable for little girls be kind, pretty and quiet. Be caring and not assertive. Make choices that lead to low paid careers.

Partly biology - only the women can carry the child and give birth to it if a couple want a baby. The woman does take some hit to her career even if returning after 6/9 months.

Partly society and biology re drive and expectation as to who spends more time looking after the child.

Ingrained sexism in the world of work that it’s easier to promote men in fertile years rather than a women who might go off and have a baby or two or three.

The patriarchy values with higher pay traditional men’s work over women’s work.

Some personal choice - it’s undoubtedly easier to stay home than it is to juggle work and children if your partner is not taking an equal role at home.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/04/2019 10:06

Yep all of those blue

Just before i got pregnant with ds1 i was due a promotion

The promotion was a given, i was definitely getting the upgrade in my job

Until i told them i was pregnant, then I didn't get it

I also wanted to work 2 long days and they wanted me to work 3 short days

So both of those helped me to decide to stay at home

CupOhTea · 20/04/2019 10:10

- why did the husband choose stem subjects and the wife did not? - was that sexism for example even if just subconscious - either in the family or at school ?

Yes! I do think this. I went to an all girls school and I really feel that if you weren’t AMAZING at STEM subjects, you were steered away from them. Plus I really was rather good at English lit and languages. I studied languages at university, but now actually wish I’d done English lit.

- why did the husband get very good school and university grades but not the wife? Is one lazier than the other? Do men have a higher IQ? Did she know she could rekly on a husband for money so no need for higher grades? Did she work less hard?

I think his parents, well his mum, has something to do with it and possibly also his school. He has two sisters who are both the same as him. One got the highest score in A level mathematics in the country. Seriously bright bunch.

- did the husband subconsciously choose someone who would not earn much, with worse exam grades because that would suit the lifestyle he wanted?

I have no idea why he picked me! But maybe I picked him... I think it was a case of opposites attracting. I was with a fun artsy crowd at university and he was more football and video games.

I do agree these questions need to be asked.

CupOhTea · 20/04/2019 10:11

Oh yeah - my brother did worse - way worse than I did at school and my sister did a lot better:

OhTheRoses · 20/04/2019 10:20

I do think times have changed for the better. DH and I are late 50s now, the DC are 24 and 20. I can envisage the DC and their partners having portfolio style careers, perhaps both working 4 days and having more flexibility over childcare. It was actually very different 25 years ago.

WanttoFindWorkLifeBalance · 20/04/2019 10:40

I find this a really conflicting topic. I'm the higher earner in our house earning 2-3 times what my husband earns - he just tips into the 6 figure bracket. I work for a tech company with only about 15% women at partner level, few of those with children, so I'm frequently held up as a role model etc. Most people think I'm living the dream, successful career, 3 lovely kids, husband who does fair share on home front etc. etc. I'm able to work from home a lot and attend school events.

The reality behind the scenes however is that I hate it and have felt guilty every step of the way. I don't want to feel like this at all - I absolutely want to embrace it, be the person others think I am but I just can't. I'm like the example mentioned up thread of a weekend mother as although I'm at school things, do pick up a day or two a week etc. these are very brief interludes away from calls and email. Most of the time I'm physically there but mentally stressing about work and being irritable as a result. I have constant headaches, insomnia, feel down about my ability to be the right parent as well as successful in my job.

My husband however is relatively successful, enjoys his job and never seems to feel a moment's guilt or worry about any of it. I puzzle a lot over whether it's nature, the fact I carried and gave birth to the children that makes me feel the way I do - or is it societal 'norms', number of SAHMs I'm surrounded by etc. Is it simply that I need to find a job that I enjoy more - is it possible this would then override the guilt etc. I wonder if part of it is that men are just societally expected to work whereas women are expected to make the choice once they have children. This seems to result in a large number of women, both those who work and those who gave up, beating themselves up about whether they've made the right choice whereas because men typically just work right through they don't especially question it?

CupOhTea · 20/04/2019 10:50

This seems to result in a large number of women, both those who work and those who gave up, beating themselves up about whether they've made the right choice whereas because men typically just work right through they don't especially question it?

Yes, I think this makes sense. I also don’t know if it’s biology or what. For me, my, “did I make the right choices?” moments, go back to before we had dcs.

Did I make the right choice in deciding to put dh’s career before my own? On the one hand, we are a team and he was always more likely to be able to provide more for our family by working fewer hours than I was, so it made sense for us to put everything we could into his career.

But on the other hand, he probably could have done all of that without me, (until we had children), and I could have made my own career for myself by settling somewhere without him and doing a long distance relationship.

But we’d done a bit of that during our placement years at university and we wanted to live together and set up a little home for ourselves.

In hindsight, and dh agrees, theoretically I could have worked in London or somewhere, (his office for the first leg of his graduate scheme was on the other side of the country), and have made a decent career to go back to after dcs. But then, would I have been able to go back to it? I’d always assumed yes, but there are lots of people on here saying they had the same career as their dh’s but still weren’t able or didn’t want to go back for one reason or another.

I suppose we’ll never know in my case! Which is a bit sad, but also not as in some ways I feel very lucky to be able to be with my children so much. It’s all very complicated! Interesting topic though.

CupOhTea · 20/04/2019 10:52

Sorry, my point being that those choices couldn’t be put down to biology... or could they? See? Complicated Grin.

Xenia · 20/04/2019 12:13

Cup, thanks for answering. I don't usually like to personalise threads but it is very interesting to others why people end up where they are.

In our case (we had a 20 years marriage) I was a student and he was working when we met - both graduates. He owned a house in the North. I had already secured a job in a London law firm (after 139 applications and 25 interviews over 6 months - it was a massive effort and very hard in the early 80s) and had won a scholarship to university after sitting 3 hours x 3 of competitive exams, was top of first year, won univesrity prizes etc. My siblings and I all did career specific degrees in careers that tend to pay well - one of my siblings is a doctor (consultant) etc. So I am sure our parents whose own parents had come from relative povery - my grandfather left school at 12 and self educated and set up his own estate agent and valuation business etc.

So there was clearly a desire that we all had careers that would keep us out of the mining, ship building and other local industries from which many of the family came.

Thus even before we got engaged we agreed I would stick with the job in London, he would move down as soon as his house was sold and find a teaching job down here - head of department - which he did. We also discussed before we married that if childcare did not work out then he would give up his work - but it did work out. So we both worked full time. Then ultimateily I earned 10x what he did.

My parents were not sexist. i remember my father taking us to some science lectures put on for children at the local university in my early teens. We all went to single sex schools as did my 5 children so there was no science is for boys only although my own school was not at all good for science A levels.

On a couple by couple basis if people are hapy with the man or woman earning more it doesn't matter at all. on an overall society level if women keep marrying up and taking loads of time off when babies come (I didn't) and then regret it (see the many divorce threads on MN where the man runs off with all the money then it can be a problem.

the comment above about guilt is interesting. I have been reading my diaries and got to about 2005 when a feature was published about me on women who were quite successful. The journalist said that for all of us we did not have the guilt some other women had. We all felt we could do a good enough job at work and then leave it behind and do a good enough job at home. The perfectionists tended to have the problem always worrying about things.

In my own case once the children were at school I set up on my own based at home although a lot of that time I was out every day, flying abroad, meetings all over the place, loads of travel. Then we had twins and that was much easier as I could feed them when they needed it one on each side, not have to express milk at work as I had done for the older ones. I would not have turned down a partnership at the city firm but it was not offered to me. I don't think that was due to sexism - there is just a fairly low chance of it anyway and it's worked out fine.

Now in my 50s people who became partners at the big firm are often now retiring and I can do what I like when I like instead and totally control how and when I work I have given up distance meetings last year for example as I don't like them so will sometimes say to a client - there are lots of lawyers who would be happy to do meetings - why not use XYZ. I would never have said that 20 years ago when we needed every last penny.

Wantofind's post is interesting. I agree. I think in my case I just don't have the guilt and that might be partly before my mother worked teaching full time for about ten years whilst they were married before children (quite unusual) and when she did stop work she didn't seem veyr happy with that (although our father who did a lot of childcare, all the night feeds for those bottle fed and loads of house cleaning which was not my mother's forte) and would moan about having just done housework that morning etc. Whereas her own mother and grandmother were both widowed and probably therefore were kind of in charge, single person, head of the family, earning etc In essence I almost feel I came from a family where women work and like it. Even my father's grandmother had to work (she had a drunken husband who was often away and had ten children). She was born in 1839. Even her sisters ended up working - one owned and ran a pub and then let apartments out. one of her daughters qualified as a nurse in the 1890s and another worked in a haberdashery shop. Anyway I have got off topic I suppose..... which was supposed to be what is life like on a high income (or was it what is it like to earn nothing but your husband earns a lot? I've forgotten which now).

Xenia · 20/04/2019 12:13

Gosh that was long. No wonder I have churned out 30 books....

OhTheRoses · 20/04/2019 12:24

Actually interesting Xenia. My mother, grandmother and great grandmother worked. Great and grandma had to run the family businesses in the 1st and 2nd world wars. Grandma married a foreigner and he took her name. No sexism on my side either.

CupOhTea · 20/04/2019 12:26

Grin @xenia.

I always have in my head that dh could feck off with all the money. But, at this point, there’s not a lot I can do about that and hopefully he won’t obviously. It’s something I would simply have to deal with. I may not be terribly clever but I’m fairly resilient and resourceful.

Another way of looking at it is, rather than preventing women from taking time off, how about protecting the employment rights of people who legitimately feel they have to take time off work to care for children? Also, protecting their financial rights if they divorce. Ensuring child support from the NRP would be a good place to start.

Or, what about childcare provision being cheaper? At the moment it is prohibitively high for many.

Xenia · 20/04/2019 12:43

Good points. Our child care was 50% of each of our net salaries - a massive chunk which we only endured as we knew my wage would go up on qualifying (for our new baby in 1984) - no 30 free hours then nor anyway are there now if you have a tiny baby. No way to pay a mortgage (or rent) after the 6 weeks at 90% pay which I didn't even get as didn't have 2 years of service you needed for it then hence I took less and used annual and therefore paid leave.

Free childcare where both parents work would certainly help or allow it to be tax deductible. I don't write about my grandchildren but I can say that their full time childcare is very expensive today too. I know a Finnish lawyer who moved with his lawyer wife to the UK. Their childcare bills went up 10x by moving to London (although their tax blls were a bit lower but nothing like as much lower as to make up for the childcare cost difference).

Most people in the UK are employed by employers with under 5 staff I think so all the best maternity policies in the world are pretty much irrelevant to many unless they are lucky enough to teach or work for the NHS or a huge company.

Child support is a big issue too - I agree. The problem is it is so easy to avoid. One man I know through work moved to Thailand with his business - never paid a penny since to his wife and children as far as I am aware. Another took his children to Dubai and somehow managed to convince the English courts not to let the mother see them often and she could not afford to travel to Dubai - he almost wrote her out of their lives and remarried. Another I met on a date (why men think this is a selling poin I don't know) went on about moving his money off shore - he works as an accountant in a private office of a rich shipping family - well clever him but not nice for the wife left to feed the children.

however most people aren't like that so I don't think most people need to worry. Also most couples in the £100k - £500k bracket probably have most of their money in their house and possibly a holiday home abroad and also a pension so those are easy to get hold of on a divorce and divide up fairly.

lul37 · 20/04/2019 14:51

My DH is now on 100k so I guess would be considered a high earner ??? He was on around 20k as a graphic designer when we first got married 12 years ago. We had a sort of arranged marriage due to our cultural background (long story)!! But over the years he shifted roles in his numerous jobs and is now in a senior consultant position in digital marketing. I still find it puzzling with my background in English Lit how he crossed into a different career path although I'm grateful obviously! I do see now that he actually couldn't have had our DC and climbed up the career ladder like he did if it wasn't for me, thanks Mumsnet!!

I was on 16k back then working full time before I had my DC. When I had my DS1 I went back part time to a different low paid, part time job. Found it a good balance as I didn't want to go back to work full time and luckily didn't have to. I also felt like I didn't want to be a full time SAHM. Part time felt like I was getting some financial independence by making my own pocket money essentially. My DH was happy with this arrangement as well and encouraged me to find part time work in the first place. I also really enjoyed my part time job even with the low pay so that helped enormously.

However something changed after I had my DS2. My husband was offered a job abroad and we decided to go for it while the kids were young. In retrospect, it might have been the biggest mistake we did. Not only did we replace the tax in the UK with the private school fees, but because I just couldn't find another low stress, part time job abroad like the one I had previously in the UK. Plus he was being sent to travel constantly for work and so our roles become so Black and White: me the SAHM and him the Breadwinner. We both resent it and we both feel undervalued; he feels like all the pressure is on him and I feel like he doesn't appreciate all the childcare and house work I do while he's away for work Sad

And yes I do feel guilty too that I can't contribute financially (although it's not like I'm sat at home doing nothing all day). I do wish I would have invested more in my career before rushing to have DC. I kind of blame my cultural upbringing for that. It might have made all the difference when we moved abroad if I also had a well paid job/career, in that I also could have found a well paid job abroad and maybe DH wouldn't have to be so stressed at work. Then he might be able to find a lower paid job with no travel if I was helping out financially.

But like @CupOhTea I have no major qualifications that would get me a substantial role that would justify me being away from my DC for a good chunk of time. I also don't even know if I would be happy being away from them so long tbc. That's the other dilemma. I really do think it's a biological instinct for women to want to spend more time with their offspring when they are young. Like someone said here, men and women might strive to be equal but they are wired differently.

I try and focus on being grateful that at least I can spend more quality time with DC. And I'm hoping that eventually when we move back to the Uk, I can either go back and retrain or work part time again. It worries me too what would happen if down the line DH and spilt up.

small2018 · 24/04/2019 11:04

@PaisleyCrib are you allowed to say what your DH does?

Absofrigginlootly · 24/04/2019 12:34

She already said he’s a Hedge fund manager I think.... I mentioned it to DH as a potential career change because the money sounds insane and the hours sound pretty reasonable from her posts!! Grin

Benes · 24/04/2019 12:48

That's the other dilemma. I really do think it's a biological instinct for women to want to spend more time with their offspring when they are young. Like someone said here, men and women might strive to be equal but they are wired differently.

What a broad generalisation.......i never felt this and neither did many of my female friends. My DH would have happily taken shared parental leave had it existed. I think society still tells us that women should be at home rather than it all being about biology.

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