To think always being late isn’t a quirky personality trait

[CorianderDestroysFamilies]

I’m meeting my friend today and I already know she’ll be late. Normally she’ll message me at the time we’re supposed to be meeting saying she’s just about to leave so I’ll be stood waiting for 15 minutes, one time she messaged saying she would be an hour late I was already at the meeting point with my DC so it was a waste of all our time.
Anyway I’ve just seen another funny meme about how someone will still be in the bath at the time they should be going out and how hilarious it all is. I just think things like this normalise lateness and justify people like it’s some sort of quirky, unavoidable character flaw when it’s actually really rude and makes people like me less likely to want to see you. So AIBU?

If I have to be somewhere at a certain time, no I don't wash my hair with no time to spare. I will do it the night before. I will get my clothes out the night before, even my underwear, jewellery etc.

This is because you don't have ADHD

The night before, I probably meant to wash my hair but it got bumped off the list by the 101 other things I'm behind on and frantically trying to catch up with. I also meant to get my clothes ready, but by the time it got to 1:30am and I was only just hitting the sack, that got bumped off the list too.

But there are lots of things you could have done to make it easier for yourself in that scenario.

Yes, but those things may be clear to other people but not me.

The underlying problem may be that 10:30am is too early to meet, but when I make the arrangement it seems like plenty of time to me.

No it's not alright it's bloody rude.

You have to do it to her.

@BroomstickOfLove my brother has recently been diagnosed and he started with the GP.

My daughter was diagnosed last year with Dyslexia and Dyspraxia (also ADHD) which we had to pay for privately as the school didn't have funds.

It's tricky as an adult, but I think for the most part DB's dx has really helped him and explained an awful lot. He's on medication to help his focus and getting help with strategies to cope.

I am constantly late / behind, partly as I start too many things, there are lose ends all over the place.

I'm terrible at overcommitting myself as I underestimate how long things take.

My life is about constantly reprioritising the things that need doing urgently, now. I only ever do things urgently, these days, it seems. So I only, for example, wash my hair at the last minute when it's desperate for a wash, as all the other times, when it'd be a more sensible time to do it, it's not been urgent so I've done something else more pressing instead.

It's a chaotic and stressful way to live and I am desperately trying to change it.

But when people pop up and say "just do ABC, it's easy" it wrankles as you have no idea of the level of dysfunction going on, or how well I - and people like me - cover for it in every day life, you'll likely only notice it impacting you when we're late and assume it's because we just don't care.

I had two friends like this a couple of years ago. Got to the point where I didn't even tell my child if we were meeting them as she would get fed up waiting over an hour at times and I would have to tell her we would go and do something else. Friends excuses would be along the lines of.... 'I didn't realise the time' 'I don't know what happened' all with laughter, not an apolopy. Other friend was obsessed with letting her 2 year old sleep at any opportunity and so badly organised, wouldn't wake her to meet us at the agreed time, wouldn't warn me she wouldn't make the agreed time, would message me half an hour after to say her child wasn't awake yet and wouldn't actually be turning up. I had a child the same age and no car and was on time every time. I lived across the street from her at one point and she still would either be late or not turn up.
I have always felt lateness was incredibly rude and selfish. I'm also confused why these people feel I had nothing better to do with my life but stand around waiting for them to grace me their presence.

Like a number of other posters on this thread, I also have ADHD, diagnosed about 10 years ago and I am disgusted by the comments I've just read. The lack of tolerance and understanding being displayed towards people with this condition is completely unacceptable. Can I remind you that ADHD is a disability covered by the Equality Act?

There are hundreds of thousands of women in this country with undiagnosed ADD and ADHD who are trying so hard to keep all the plates spinning. They don't know they've got one of these conditions, but chronic lateness is a key marker, as is being untidy, forgetting to pay bills, losing things all the time. There’s also many thousands who have been diagnosed but don’t tell anyone because of shame, stigma etc. For every one of you who thinks your friends are being lazy and rude and selfish, let me tell you that your friends deserve better friends than you lot. Those women will be feeling guilt and shame and be fucking exhausted trying so hard every single day just to do the basics like getting to work on time, getting their kids out the door on time with lunches and pe kits and signed homework. Then they make arrangements with people like you, and then they're late and you give them a hard time and they feel like utter failures? They know they've let you down, do you think they don't know that? They feel like shit and your attitudes stink.

I actually gave up copying and pasting some of your comments, there were far too many, but here's a few from early in the thread.

Again though, late* people, if it's due to a cognitive difficulty (I think you mean disability) why make plans in the first place? WTF?* Should we just all stay home?
Its a personality flaw rather than a trait No, it's a fucking disability and that's discrimination.
If you have some kind of problem (Did you mean to be so rude?)that means you are more likely to be late, set and obey an alarm. Hahaha. Fuck me, why didn't I think of that?
I often wonder about anyone who has no concept of time and uses it as the reason they are always late. It is the reason. Can you not see that?
Do they have a job? Yes, and many have lost a job due to timekeeping
Do they ever go to appointments? I miss them all the time, it's a nightmare. It's awful but I can't help it.
Do they have children? Yes and it's hard for them and I can't help it.
Everything we do is by the clock, and it's not easy for most people,**
But most of us find a way. Set alarms, use timers, keep a written diary, look at time tables. Do you think we don't do that? That helps but not always when you have to remember to set the timer in the first place. FFS.
I sometimes spend 1/2 an hour working out how to get somewhere on time. If someone thinks Oh it's ok I've got 10 mins I'll start this" then they are saying there time is more important.* *
They are not prepared to lose 10 minutes doing anything as dull as waiting, but everyone has to wait for them, it's selfish. It's a disability, why don't you show your friend some fucking understanding? Should everyone who is suffering from depression just give themselves a good shake while they're at it?

And I am sick of "disabled" (just putting that in there for you) people making excuses like they have problems with misjudging time or 'anxiety.' Are you now? How about the people with ADHD or anxiety? How do you think they feel, being judged as rude and lazy by perfect humans like you?

It's a personality trait but does not make it acceptable. How fucking rude.
If you are someone who is clumsy you make an effort to be careful, and perhaps adjust where you put things. If you are someone who has a poor sense of direction you consult maps more often. If you struggle to wake up when needed you have a louder alarm clock or one further from your bed.

So if you are often late you should take steps to stop this.* Shall I just try harder then? That's what I've been hearing my whole life.
*
What comes across loud and clear on this thread is that some of you NT people think YOUR time is more important than your friends' mental health and that's appalling. You're the ones being rude and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

But you still could have not washed your hair on the day, or not dried your hair when you realised you didn't have time. Because in that scenario you did realise you didn't have time to dry your hair, but dried it anyway. Or you could have just got up earlier.

What your describing is exactly how my mornings would be if I got up at 8am to leave at 8.45. But i woud never do that because I would be late. And if being late is a frequent occurrence in that scenario, then you need to get up earlier. You won't necessarily know exactly how long you need but you can see " I was late here" so therefore "I need to get up earlier". It would literally be madness to keep getting up at the same time and keep being late

Depends do you think she might have underlying mental health problems? Anxiety can make it hard to leave on time! So can some chronic illnesses ME/CFS for example!

Just fixing the bold fails from my last post.

Again though, late people, if it's due to a cognitive difficulty (I think you mean disability) why make plans in the first place? WTF? Should we just all stay home?
Its a personality flaw rather than a trait No, it's a fucking disability and that's discrimination.
If you have some kind of problem (Did you mean to be so rude?)that means you are more likely to be late, set and obey an alarm. Hahaha. Fuck me, why didn't I think of that?
I often wonder about anyone who has no concept of time and uses it as the reason they are always late. It is the reason. Can you not see that?
Do they have a job? Yes, and many have lost a job due to timekeeping
Do they ever go to appointments? I miss them all the time, it's a nightmare. It's awful but I can't help it.
Do they have children? Yes and it's hard for them and I can't help it.
Everything we do is by the clock, and it's not easy for most people,
But most of us find a way. Set alarms, use timers, keep a written diary, look at time tables. Do you think we don't do that? That helps but not always when you have to remember to set the timer in the first place. FFS.
I sometimes spend 1/2 an hour working out how to get somewhere on time. If someone thinks Oh it's ok I've got 10 mins I'll start this" then they are saying there time is more important.

They are not prepared to lose 10 minutes doing anything as dull as waiting, but everyone has to wait for them, it's selfish. It's a disability, why don't you show your friend some fucking understanding? Should everyone who is suffering from depression just give themselves a good shake while they're at it?

And I am sick of "disabled" (just putting that in there for you) people making excuses like they have problems with misjudging time or 'anxiety.' Are you now? How about the people with ADHD or anxiety? How do you think they feel, being judged as rude and lazy by perfect humans like you?

It's a personality trait but does not make it acceptable. How fucking rude.
If you are someone who is clumsy you make an effort to be careful, and perhaps adjust where you put things. If you are someone who has a poor sense of direction you consult maps more often. If you struggle to wake up when needed you have a louder alarm clock or one further from your bed.

So if you are often late you should take steps to stop this. Shall I just try harder then? That's what I've been hearing my whole life.

DoNotTouch fair enough but not everyone who is late is disabled. There are people out there who are just rude, who don't care if they keep you waiting, who think their time is more important than yours, who just have more of a me me me attitude. There have been plenty of people on this thread who have said they know people like this.

Borsetshireblueballs I have reported your comment. It's right up there with telling someone "you don't look disabled." Disgusting.

I don't think people with disability are the object of the OP. It's people that are late for sheer disorganisation. If you have a health issue your friends will probably be aware and take that into account. Before I started working I was always late to meet my friends. But I think was more the case of thinking that my presence wasn't that essential ( usually group meetings). After I started working I learned the impact of being late and how people felt let down and improved a lot after.

Roussette, you are correct. If someone is only keeping you waiting, but is on time for everything else, that's not ADHD, which is great for them, but not so good for you. They're not a great friend.

Nearly47, I get that, but see my comments about undiagnosed and undisclosed ADHD. So many people find this stuff so, so difficult. They don't mean it, they don't know why they do it and they genuinely can't help it.

DoNot exactly. I am not going to pretend I understand what it's like to endure ADHD or something which affects every bit of timekeeping. I don't know and I never will. If someone said to me 'look, I'm trying my best but I really really struggle with this aspect', I'd be totally understanding and I'd like to think that between us we'd work out the best way to meet.

However, I can perceive and notice rudeness when someone just thinks about themselves and not the other person hanging about like a lemon waiting for that person to turn up. I call them up on it. They either make more of an effort or we drift.....

people do need to be educated about this, and hopefully some have changed their minds on ‘rudeness’

definitely not

And people should be a bit more forgiving with other people limitations. Thinking of it I have a sister that struggles a lot with timing. I despair watching her getting ready. It doesn't make any sense. She will be in and out of the bathroom a thousand times.She is older than me and we don't think she can change. It's frustrating but she really can't help it. We accept it. She is otherwise very competent and respected in her field of work. All her friends and colleagues learned to accept it too. And I am 100% sure she is not malicious or disrespectfull with her friends. She actually has loads of friends that really care for her and vice versa. So nothing wrong with her morals at all

Drives me insane. We had friends over for Sunday lunch last month and they were an hour late. Luckily I'd planned to serve lunch an hour after their "arrival" time which meant they literally arrived as I was dishing the food up. They are always late, always. It infuriates me.

Should add. I don't think she has a diagnosible disability. It more an incopetence. Like some people that are untidy

My comment was not disgusting and I have no idea why it was moderated out. I will repeat that if you have the capacity to log on to a thread that interests you and type out a relevant comment, follow an argument and contribute to it, you absolutely have sufficient executive functioning ability to work out how to manage sequences of actions that lead to a desired outcome like being at a place on time. It is a matter of motivation i.e. willingness to put in the time to get the necessary plans in place to get the sequences right. And I speak as one who has such a diagnosis and is the mother of a child with such a diagnosis. I don't want to be excluded from the world and nor does my child.

I'm ashamed to admit that I'm a habitual latecomer. Not usually massively late, just 5-10 mins. I seem to underestimate how long journeys are going to take, always trying to cram too much in.

There is absolutely no insult intended and if someone thinks I'm late because I'm arrogant and don't value their time, that is their judgement, not my reality.

I also hate people who are smug, self-satisfied and self-righteous, and so I hope that none of these judgy people with perfect lives ever bother to make social acquaintance with me.

There is a heavily cultural element of this. My background is a laid back one where being late was the norm, expected even. I personally detest people being on time, especially if they are always trying to regulate, control and judge everyone else's behaviour.

How can you 'detest' people who are on time? You make an arrangement to meet a friend at 2pm and they are there at 2pm. You detest them for this? FWIW I don't give a rats arse about 5-10 minutes late. It's the 20 minutes, half hour, hour... habitually.