To think always being late isn’t a quirky personality trait

[CorianderDestroysFamilies]

I’m meeting my friend today and I already know she’ll be late. Normally she’ll message me at the time we’re supposed to be meeting saying she’s just about to leave so I’ll be stood waiting for 15 minutes, one time she messaged saying she would be an hour late I was already at the meeting point with my DC so it was a waste of all our time.
Anyway I’ve just seen another funny meme about how someone will still be in the bath at the time they should be going out and how hilarious it all is. I just think things like this normalise lateness and justify people like it’s some sort of quirky, unavoidable character flaw when it’s actually really rude and makes people like me less likely to want to see you. So AIBU?

I used to have a friend who was always late. I fixed it so we met in a resturant or cafe so I could sit down & order a drink while I waited. Then one day I forgot we were meeting for lunch. Arrived half an hour late to find her gibbering with rage.Apparently people kept looking at her. I had done it on purpose. No apology would make up for her embarassment. The friendship petered out after that. Funny when you think about it.

Then I'm trying to find my shoes, remembering at the last minute that I need to transfer money over into DP's account and borrow his card - as I've lost mine, finding shoes that have gone missing etc etc.

Unless there is someone in your house who hides your shoes, they haven't 'gone missing' - they are where you left them.

The remedy for this type of faff is,

1. Have a designated place for keys, bank cards etc, and make sure to put them there as soon as you come in the house and

1. Think about what you want to wear and get your clothes ready the night before.

But when this was suggested on the last thread on this subject, people had all sorts of reasons why they couldn't possibly do those things.

Oh and pp who said mental illness is worse than being late. Yes it is. Would I prefer ADHD or schizophrenia? I’d take the ADHD but think for one moment what it is to live your whole life being told you lazy, messy, tardy and disorganised. That you are a failure. That if you tried you could achieve. Imagine how that feels when you are trying so hard, harder than anyone else you know (before meds’ I spent four hours a night working out my next day down to the last minutiae with a complex system of alarms and alerts). Being told you don’t care when you care so much you spend most nights crying yourself to sleep and praying that someone will fix you.

It is crushing to the self esteem and it is the experience of most women with ADHD as people only diagnose hyperactive little boys in childhood. Most ADHD adults present with severe anxiety and depression because they can’t square the fact they care and try so much but they always fail.

It’s shit.

My older dsis is like this. I once invited her for Sunday lunch and told her 12-30. 1-15i am ringing her because she hasn't arrived but phone is engaged for almost 10mins.Eventually she arrives at gone 2.
Iv never invited her for lunch since.
When we go out shopping etc she is collected by our younger Dsis. Because of previous occasions when she hadn't been ready, my Dsis the younger tells her to be ready 30mins before pick up time
Lateness is not a charming trait it's Fucking rudr

1. Have a designated place for keys, bank cards etc, and make sure to put them there as soon as you come in the house

This is what people are not understanding - this kind of thing is really hard for someone with and ADHD brain.

I do have designated places for shoes (in the shoe rack) and keys (in my jacket pocket).

But things get in the way of the system, mostly my memory!

In the scenario I mentioned, it'd be because I was in a rush, and concentrating on getting everything done. I would have been focused on getting undressed and into the shower, not on putting my shoes away as I was only just about to go out again. I would have taken them off while focusing on getting in the shower, and have no recollection of where they were.

For the keys - I would have likely confused myself by putting on a different jacket. I can't have a peg or something to put them on, as I'm far to distracted with other things when I'm going into, or leaving the house to be able to reliably remember to put it there or remember to get it on the way out.

If your brain worked normally you have no idea how things that seem easy to you can be hard for others.

Do you tell people with broken legs they just need to try harder to walk as fast as you also?

I think that people want lateness to be a moral failing, otherwise they would have to accept that they are disablist

So absolutely everyone who is chronically late, and doesn't care that they keep people waiting, has some sort of undiagnosed disability.

What a pile of tripe.

think for one moment what it is to live your whole life being told you lazy, messy, tardy and disorganised. That you are a failure. That if you tried you could achieve. Imagine how that feels when you are trying so hard, harder than anyone else you know

It is crushing to the self esteem and it is the experience of most women with ADHD as people only diagnose hyperactive little boys in childhood. Most ADHD adults present with severe anxiety and depression because they can’t square the fact they care and try so much but they always fail.

This.

I'd also rather have ADHD than the total lack of empathy or understanding that some posters on this thread are displaying.

So absolutely everyone who is chronically late, and doesn't care that they keep people waiting, has some sort of undiagnosed disability.

But, nobody actually said that, did they?

I usually arrive " dangerously" on time. Meaning that I won't leave a buffer aiming to arrive 15 mins before the time and as a result I am sometimes late. But that increases the efficient use of my time.

If I said be at mine for 1pm and I'll give you a million quid, how many would still be late ??

I hate lateness and I get a bit worked up and stressed if I feel I am going to be late for something.

*So absolutely everyone who is chronically late, and doesn't care that they keep people waiting, has some sort of undiagnosed disability.

But, nobody actually said that, did they?*

But it was implied, just as it always is on MN. Nobody is allowed to just be unpleasant, they have to be a narcissist. Nobody is antisocial, they all have social anxiety, autism or both. Nobody is flaky and late - it simply has to be ADHD or whatever.

That's not denying that some people have those conditions. But most don't. The person I know who I ended a friendship with definitely doesn't. She's basically just a bit thick and doesn't care that her actions impact on others. Plus she was spoonfed at a private school for "rich but thick" kids then went straight into a job in one of those mickey mouse civil service jobs being discussed on another thread, so has managed to drift through life being a bit useless and it never mattering.

@Hairynick itd genuinely be 50/50 with me tbh... I wouldn't put it past me to fuck it up and lose out on the million quid.
I once had to pay nearly a grand for a new flight so I could get to my parents event (they live abroad) when I'd already spent 100s on the previous flight which I completely missed.
It's not a joke. People arent just making it up. ADD exists, processing difficulties exist and no you cant bribe people out of them to show that they are really just selfish shits, however much youd like that to be the case because you just dont want to have to try and understand.

@SileneOliviera doesnt the existence of those conditions lead you to understand that people do have varying levels of capability when it comes to timekeeping though? That not everyone is going to find it the exact same experience as you? You arent either NT or not a lit of the time it's much more of a spectrum with some people aware they have issues and with a diagnosis and some people who just struggle with certain things without a diagnosis and are never really sure why.Surely from the replies on this thread you can see that some people find it impossible, some people find ot quite hard, some people can do okay with systems in place yo help and some people are very naturally organised and precise and dont have to use too much focus at all to be on time.
Does this not imply that a great many people are not being late be ause they are arrogant, selfish or have some personal grievance or vendetta against you..... but because they genuinely find it harder to get their shit together and understand what they need to do

You haven't said what the friend's situation is. I was late all the time when my children were young. People made comments to me and I started to fill awful. Now that my children are older, I am not late. I look back and think how awful people were to me. I have 3 children 1 + twins. All of which had different health needs. I have no family for help. I would try but it was a nightmare. yes, part of it was that I didn't start early enough, but really how can one judge that when there is mayhem all around. I was also completely knackered trying to meet so many expectations. At the same time, I really needed to get out. I needed people around as it was so difficult.

If you value the friend, speak to her. Don't assume you know the whole story. Anxiety, depression, illness can all change how we are.
Let her know that it is frustrating and ask how you can help. Support each other and find a way through. Unless of course, you are looking for a way out of the friendship. I lost of few friends during the difficult years. The ones that stuck by me are gold

howmanyleftfeet

In that scenario though you could have

a) got up earlier. You didn't have enough time to get ready so you were late

B) not washed or dried your hair. If I was going to be late I would forgo drying my hair. You could have washed it the night before or got up 5 minutes earlier and done it first thing to allow it time to dry. I actually never blow dry my hair in the morning because it would make me late.

C) arranged to meet your friend half an hour later in the first place to allow you time to get ready.

You could keep all your clothes in the same place, even if they are in piles just keep them in the same place. Get them out the night before, keep them in drawers.

I know it's fictitious but a similar situation. would be entirely of your making, it's not the losing of keys, losing of shoes that would have made you late it's the fact you didn't get up on time, didn't give yourself enough time to be ready, had dirty hair. I understand the losing things, I lose things all the time. Hence why I have the contactless mobile thing, cash in my bags. Shoes kept in the same place so even if I lose the pair I was wearing some will be by the door.

I'm not saying it's easy and that you'll get it right everytime. But there are lots of things you could have done to make it easier for yourself in that scenario.

The thing is, the people who are always late have never experienced what it’s like to wait around for someone who is, so they don’t know how frustrating that is.

If somebody is known for being late that means it's habitual, and bloody rude.

We totally have had to wait. Firstly, because we are also ridiculously early for stuff sometimes, and have to hang around for ages pretending we aren't waiting, and secondly, because it's easier to be friends with other late people because they are relaxed about other people's lateness. There was a thread about this a while ago where people who like to be early couldn't grasp that plenty of people found it ride and stressful for people to show up early and would much prefer for their guests to be late their early, or bang on time.

Also, if you are someone with an ADHD diagnosis, how did you go about getting diagnosed? Did you go to your GP? And did the diagnosis make a difference? I looked it up as a result of this thread, and the attentiveness symptoms pretty much all applied to me.

Never mind having long written lists of things to do - teach yourself (if you have ADHD) in a way that your body remembers what to do, even if your brain is dealing with three million different things at one.

It does take time and effort, but it works.

Put a hook on the wall by the front door that's directly in your path. You walk towards the door, you pick up the keys whilst saying 'Keys', you open the door with your keys in your hand whilst saying 'Keys', you shut the door with the keys in your hand, saying 'Keys'. You come in with the keys in your hand saying 'Keys', you shut the door with the keys in your hand saying 'Keys', you walk in and place the keys on the hook saying 'Keys'.

By doing that, you are teaching yourself that you only touch the door whilst holding keys, thus reducing the chance of shutting yourself out and muscle memory teaches you to make those exact movements every time you walk in or walk out.

I have absolutely zero memory of putting my keys on the hook by the door or of taking them off in the morning, but they are there every time and I don't lock myself out when I'm taking the bins out or going to work - I can think 'KEYS!' whilst they are actually in my hand as I'm closing the door. There's also a spare physically attached to my bag, just in case of a breakdown in the routine.

Three steps on from the door is the shoerack. It got moved because that's where I kick my shoes off and there's no point having to remember where I've left the things rather than take them to the shoerack. My coat goes on the bannister. No point having a coat rack, I just didn't use it, but this stops me dumping it on the settee and having the cat happily sit on it and cover it in fluff.

I chucked out the clothes that don't fit nicely. No point getting distracted by them. No point keeping stuff I don't or can't wear, it's just another distraction. I don't put off something I know I'll otherwise need to do in a rush/when time is more critical. I'd rather wash my hair at night when there isn't a need to be out of the house at a certain time. I've got a hairbrush upstairs, one on my route out the house just before I pass a full length mirror (ideal for doublechecking everything is right), one in my bag - I only have one bag or coat on the go so I don't pick up the wrong one or leave anything important behind - and one sits in my desk at work, along with a can of dry shampoo, a toothbrush and toothpaste.

The ideal result is one where, whatever hundred things are bouncing round in your head, the actual getting up, dressed and out of the house is so streamlined and ingrained in your body that your active brain doesn't even need to think about it - you could mime those movements.

Teaching yourself to do that does take time, but it also helps for finding other things that are missing - 'where's my bank card?' - [going through the movements as you do this] 'In. Keys. Shoes. [looking on side in case the card was put down beside the rack or put in the shoes] Coat. [check pockets]. Sit down [look on settee, sit down, look at coffee table]. There it is. Found it!'.

Try to not have other things going on in the house. Only have the TV/radio on when you're actively watching or listening. Don't have either on in the morning, as they are time vampires like no other, especially the TV.

Whilst some people have not been able to, if someone has passed their driving test, is capable of cooking/feeding themselves and hasn't burned their house down so far, there's a very good chance that they have previously been able to learn to do things in a sequence and now don't need to think about the steps. If they've done that, they can learn new steps to ease some of their difficulties.

Any disability is a bastard. But there's working to find ways to adapt/work around them and then there's 'I'm disabled, you're all picking on me'. I won't ever run a marathon, but I can find ways to cover 26-and-a-bit-miles without having to run all the way. I won't like getting up in the morning, but I can find out ways to work with when I'm likely to sleep, more likely to wake up, alarms that don't shock me as much, how to not worsen my morning in having to get up and not trip over crap left on the floor in my way. And cutting out the extraneous stuff means I'm less likely to be distracted by sorting them out whilst I need to be sorting something else.

Totally agree with last few posts. If I have to be somewhere at a certain time, no I don't wash my hair with no time to spare. I will do it the night before. I will get my clothes out the night before, even my underwear, jewellery etc.

I had to be up at 4am to catch a flight recently. I can't function without a cup of tea. I poured the milk in the cup, laid out the spoon, teabag etc. My clothes were laid on the floor ready to put on, my hair was washed, I just had to drink my tea and walk out the door. My bag was by the door, boarding pass and passport in the right pocket. I still set the alam with extra time to spare because I can't be late.

However, I am the same with meeting friends, I won't leave them hanging around. I plan in advance. I'm meeting someone tomorrow I haven't seen for a while. I have already planned my journey, my clothes, everything... all so I can be on time. Because I think it is very rude to keep someone hanging around.

@Imnotmad Thank you . I always get riled at these threads, but try to come on them to spread a little understanding.

Persistent lateness can be caused by ADHD, Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, depression, anxiety etc.

Many adults have never been diagnosed with ADHD etc. They may realise they struggle with something but unless you have a diagnosis, support is hard to come by.

Cut people a bit of slack and don't take it as a personal insult.

Was supposed to be having a friend visit last week at 9am. At 10.40 she still hasn't left her house yet and had a 30-40 minute journey to mine. She also knew full well my toddler has her nap due at noon.

Our toddlers are two days apart so it's not like she doesn't understand toddlers and their need for naps or routine.

I told her we needed to rain check only to get "what? Everything isn't just going to stop because your toddler needs a nap"

No but the newborn keeping me up all night means I'm having a nap with her so there's no point coming as you'll just have to leave as soon as you get here.

Her excuse was "we had a busy morning" which translates to "I need to do x - I don't care if I'm late to see lilly. My time is more important"

She want happy that I cancelled on her as normally I have been able to work around it but this time it was literally noon that me, toddler and newborn were going to have a nap. Not my fault she was already almost two hours late and hadn't even left her house yet!

This is also the lady who thought it was OK to bring her dog to a two year olds birthday or "I'll have to leave him in the car then" when it was the middle of a heart wave...

if you are someone with an ADHD diagnosis, how did you go about getting diagnosed?

I did some research online, and felt pretty sure I had ADHD.

I then went to my GP and asked to be referred. But it turns out in my area, there's a separate service that deals with mental health and neurological stuff and I could self refer. He gave me the details.

I rang and explained. They arranged for a phone consultation that took about 45 minutes. That was to decide whether to refer me and also if I needed any other help.

They referred me on for diagnosis and invited me in for CBT in the short term (which wasn't much use tbh! But then, it involves homework and reflection and I wasn't in the headspace to do that).

I got an appointment for diagnosis about a year later. They said I could bring with me someone who's known me all my life (eg a parent) if I wanted to, so they could add to my background. I didn't, but did bring some old school reports that all said I was bright but hopelessly disorganised. I was diagnosed that day, after a consultation.