Why is there such a huge discrepancy between the school day/school hols and the majority of workplaces

[Lifeisbeaut]

Just returning to work after a career break and trying to work out the logistics of school pick ups, how to manage school holidays whilst minimising the children being passed from pillar to post without routine. It’s not manageable or affordable.
I wish more employers offered term time only or proper part time options. I feel like what’s the point in going back to work when I will barely see my children and I’m barely bringing much more money in. Whoever said we could have it all was lying (unless I am missing something?)

I get both arguments as I work for a small company (5 people in total) it is fairly flexible (1 person works mainly school hours/some people do 2-3 days wfh) but it couldn't only operate in school hours!
But it is hard to juggle childcare and working especially during the holidays.
However my Dsis works in retail, she doesn't have kids and she says because of this she gets all the late shifts and has to work most weekends because the others cite family reasons for not working weekends. She sometimes goes weeks without spending a day off with her partner as her DP has a monday-friday job.

Working school hours is one thing.
Working term time only is entirely different.

I had a female boss previously who was wonderful in every way except she said that woman both could have it all and should have it all. Fantastic feminism there - replacing a set of male rules with another set of rules made by apparently emancipated women. That’s not emancipation.

My husband and I both have high level careers. I went back after both my kids. It was hellish. I eventually left when I was on a rare day off with my kids and saw that she had a better bond with my children than I did. She was th one who met their needs. She was the one who they went to when they were sad, scraped their knee, or just needed a cuddle. It broke me. I stayed at home for years and then have worked my way back on a very part time basis. Professionally it’s crap but I feel like I’m doing one of my jobs really well. It was my career that took th hit not the kids. Or me.

It works the other way for some people. But I rarely see any women genuinely having it all. My FT friends feel shit for stickkgintheuir kids in childcare. My SAH friends feel guilty for not working. Those of us in the middle often feel one or both roles are in some way compromised.

We can’t have it all. Those of us with more choices are lucky. Everyone else just has to do what their circumstances and finances allow.

But no one can have it all and anyone saying that is missing the balls they are inadvertently dropping somewhere along the way. Everything is a compromise for the working mother (and yes, it is mostly mums for whom this is a wrangle, don’t know many blokes who even think about the issue).

Sorry - she refers to our wonderful nanny.

YY Millie. I really think we do our children (both boys and girls) a disservice by letting them grow up thinking having it all is possible.

As a matter of fact Smoggle's plan is what a lot of private primaries already offer. Funny how everything is so much better organised when there is a direct customer, isn't it...

I do understand that chikdren (and teachers) need to have a break in the Summer but does it really have to be for 6 whole weeks? Surely, that could be cut down to 4 weeks.

My children's school (academy) seem to have switched to a 2 week holiday in October and 5 weeks in July/August now, whereas in previous years the summer holiday was 6-7 weeks.

Do you think men sit around telling each other they can't have it all? I highly doubt it.

Nobody can have it all....single, married, kids, no kids etc. Life involves compromises whatever your situation is.

You can live the life you want to though and chose what to compromise.. and if you're in a relationship you ensure one person isn't making all of the compromises.
I made it very clear that I would not be sacrificing my career while facilitating DHs. We chose to have a family so we need to approach it as a team. Both of us work full-time but we've also turned down jobs that would have an impact on the others ability to work or on our family life.

Userplusnumbers, the vast majority of children did not go to school 'several hundred years ago'. It was only IIRC in at least the mid 1800s that school became available for the many, rather than the very few.

Smoggle, despite a consultation showing overwhelming parental support for the change you describe, my DC’s schools have chosen to stick with the one week half terms. This leaves pretty much 7 weeks in the summer.

Today 09:50 SnuggyBuggy

I'm sure with a decent system for matching up holiday temps a lot of employers would cope

Pressed too son!
Whi’s Supposed to pay the costs for these holiday temps? The employers? Bit unrealistic isn’t it?
Flexible working can only be accommodated in a flexible business, many aren’t. If you need your employee in between 9-5, that’s when you need them.
People have always had to work around school hours and there’s more out of hours care available now than there’s ever been.

As an old glimmer I made my way to and from school. Had no parents evenings as teachers were left to it. And no fund raising events.
All the extra crap that goes on now is ridiculous - having to stand around to pick up DC every day. Who has a job that finishes st 2 so you can be at the school gates, homework in primary school.
I would like to know what is different in the Netherlands as someone said it was better there.
Also commuting would be better if travel times were staggered.
I thought things were better in the US with school buses- it turns out the buses pick up the litlies at say 1.30 and the next age group 2.30 then older ones 3.30 til all are home. So someone has to be availBle for the whole afternoon as different ages appear on the doorstep.

Extra support planned by teachers could be delivered by TAs after lessons rather than children being withdrawn during lessons.

So teachers are going to be planning interventions they aren’t delivering, discussing how the intervention went with the person who is delivering it to feed into their planning, planning and marking for the core subjects and delivering the wider curriculum in the afternoons? I think there might be a few wrinkles to iron out in this plan.

and delivering the wider curriculum in the afternoons
No. Planning, marking, prep etc in the afternoons. Art, drama, sport, music can be delivered by specialists.

Art, drama, sport, music can be delivered by specialists.

That would be lovely, but in reality who would pay for these specialists?

That would be lovely, but in reality who would pay for these specialists?
Who pays for teachers, school buildings, or any other part of the education budget?

"School is for education, not childcare."

I wonder how many people who say this sort of thing, still rely on it being available 9 - 3, 38 weeks a year.

Smoggle

What are your core subjects?
So far you have missed out MFL, Humanities, tech, PSHCE, RE, Philosophy and ethics. Food tech/nutrition/HE.

Are these specialists going to be teachers or outside private contractors?

DHs absolutely can organise and do childcare. Mine does as my job is more stressful and longer hours and commute.
I guess sometimes it’s about each person’s priorities within the couple.

Aren’t you making those optional if you’re offering 1.30 as a pick up point? And those having interventions are presumably not able to access that very freely.

And those aren’t the only things. Who’s teaching the humanities, science and computer science? And where are they going to fit in?

The point about paying for it is a good one. Are you going to be reducing the teacher teaching the core subjects to part time or are you going to be paying them full time and then a whole set of additional subject specialists in the afternoon?

or are you going to be paying them full time and then a whole set of additional subject specialists in the afternoon?

I would love to see the budget meeting for this. I would like to pay for a teacher every afternoon who isn't teaching, and 3 specialists who will each teach in the afternoon.

Meanwhile some schools are axing TAs, rationing glue and colour photocopying is banned.

Boney - presumably we're talking more primary schools as this is about working/childcare. So lets say Maths, English, Science, History/Geography in the mornings.
Afternoons can have a range of art, drama, music, sports, languages, gardening, cooking etc These don't need to be run by qualified teacher any more than after school activities do. Lots of schools currently use private companies to provide cheap cover for PPA time so it could just be brought in house on TA salaries.

I'd be more than happy collecting my child from school at 4.30pm knowing they've had Maths, English and Science lessons, a cooked lunch and done gymnastics, choir and gardening club. Teachers can leave at 4pm to collect their own children from school. Even better to book them in to stay til 6pm and have tea and homework at school if I need to work.

DontCallMeCharlotte

I had a manger similar to that and this was in the NHS. Most of the department were technically 'part time' but in reality one did term time only.

I did an early start and had a half day on Fridays.

You do need a mix of staff though to cover various hours / days if you employed just people with young children it would be more difficult.