Using a disabled loo.....

[countrymousesussex]

This is a weird one that I’m genuinely curious about, and it’s a situation I’ve found myself in a few times.

Being on maternity leave with a 4.5 month old, I am often out with the buggy. We live in a village so often am in a different town/village when shopping, running errands etc - so not close enough to nip home.

Today I was in a market town about 7 miles from our village, shopping. I was dying for the loo so I went into the baby change room at Tesco to find that there was no loo inside it. I then tried to get the buggy into the ladies but there was no room. Someone saw me struggling and said why didn’t I just use the disabled one as there was no one waiting and it has space for the buggy. I didn’t feel right doing this, so trekked in and out of coffee shops till I found one with a large enough loo to get the buggy in.

Was I being ridiculous to not use the disabled? In our village cafe I often leave the buggy in the main room while I nip to the loo and ask one of the girls that works there to keep an eye on the baby, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that anywhere else.

Parents with buggies, what would you have done?

Disabled people, would you have been really annoyed if I’d used the disabled?

I’m just interested to know if I was being a doughnut!

I am disabled. If I saw you coming out of the toilet that I had had to wait a couple of minutes for, because you had kept your baby with you, so safe, I would be happy you had done that.

Currently our drive is for these. www.gov.uk/government/news/ministers-act-to-increase-changing-places-toilets-for-severely-disabled-people Why? because the current provision when renamed to accessible from disabled so that positive language is used as the term disabled is seen as negative it is now viewed that this means they are a free for all. Add to this idiot planners thinking I know let’s add baby change in there and make regular toilets too small for buggies. It would be really helpful if parents (I mean mums and dads here) fought to get proper family rooms set up. This also help single parent fathers who have a hard time too. Radar keys used to be given out on proof of disability then some bright spark decided to sell them. I sometimes wish a new type of key was made and these toilets locked with that system and that need to prove because it removes this and may incentivise people to petition for proper family facilities. It’s tiring fighting day in day out for basic rights without then having to deal with the constant abuse when you try to use facilities you have fought for because someone else has redesignated them as they can’t be asked to do the work themselves. This is a reality for many disabled people who like someone else mentioned are now too afraid to go out the door

Merrymumoftwo good post. I wonder how long it will take for the "changing rooms" to be taken over

Part of my job involves cleaning public toilets at a visitor's centre. I often point women at the disabled toilet as an alternative to the ladies when I need to get in there to clean.

As a man it sometimes takes me a while to get into the ladies - counting women in and then out again so I know the place is empty before I can go in to refill the toilet rolls and give the place a once-over. (Whilst endlessly, ostentatiously, cleaning the area outside so I don't look like a lurking perv.) Just as I know it's empty, I knock on the door and holler in, " Is there anyone there?" just to make sure, wedge the door open, put up the Cleaning in Progress sign and .... argh!
"Would you mind using the disabled? I have to clean...."
"Oh... no problem."

Use them.

Well said Merry

Merrymumoftwo

That’s what we’re having put in. Unfortunately the only option is for it to be a single facility.

The response from local campaigners (who initially approached for the facility to become changing places) is that it’s a really positive addition to the town.

TheSandman

Don’t you give women the option? I would have no problem using the ladies loo whilst you were in there cleaning/restocking

Big shopping centres, as a PP mentioned, often have excellent facilities. The metrocentre has a mix of ladies' (including some extra large cubicles), gents', family and accessible loos and also has a quiet room for baby feeding, which I found extremely useful with rubbernecking, distractible babies.

Most smaller towns and even cities aren't so well served, though. Sunderland is a city, nearby, and the provision there is dire. I have to take my incontinent tween into either Debenhams or Markses (hoping the plumbing is actually working, in there) because the ones in the main shopping centre are disgusting, most of the time.

Which leads to another point - that toilet provision is only going to get worse in smaller city and town centres. The department stores that might have people relied on - HOF, Debenhams and even M&S - are dwindling in numbers. Libraries are closing, relocating or reducing hours. Museums and galleries often have decent facilities but many are under threat of closure or only open certain days.

I did the end cubicle thing most of the time. Pulled the door virtually shut, quick wee, baby variously in buggy or on lap, toddler stood in cubicle with me. Not the most leisurely wees of my life and obviously not the way to do it if you're dealing with leaking pads or faecal incontinence, but for a quick wee it's fine. No one could see in, no one stole the baby, and it hopefully keeps the queues for the accessible loos/ baby change area free for those who need them. Plus it avoided me having to queue.

I have noticed a tendency for new toilets to be unisex accessible toilets - clearly it has to be acceptable for them to be, as you put it, "a free for all", or all the people who don't need them will be wetting themselves.

And do you have have a source for your assertion about Changing Places? I was very much under the impression that the campaign is for better access to changing facilities for adults - noone should have to be changed on a toilet floor, etc, etc.

The solution for accessibility is for accessibility to be mainstream, not for different groups of people to be arguing over who is more entitled to use the loo - and disabled people are not exempt from this.

Yes, there are people hiding in the house because they don't dare go out as visibly disabled. I've seen first hand the abuse they get. I've also experienced first hand being abused by a wheelchair user for using an accessible facility (a lift) without being visibly disabled. That terrified me for years and stopped me from accessing certain shops etc.

While I don't use accessible loos myself unless I am literally about to wet myself (in which case, the theoretical disabled person and I are on equal footing), or they are the only provision (ie, in a hospital), I know that over aggressive policing of people who don't "look" disabled goes on there too, and it's not really acceptable.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessible_toilet
This partially explains why they are now referred to as accessible.
Jacques to be honest many councils abuse changing spaces facilities as a way of not providing space for both. That has never been the intention of them. It started with Carers and those needed hoists to change petitioning long and hard about how we change our teenagers or adults on a dirty floor because we can’t do it on a baby change as it won’t hold the wait. Many people told their horrific and degrading experiences to fight for this and the fight continues to educate those in planning who think its okay to multi-purpose it. Ignoring that this effectively creates fear in those who need these facilities to not go out for that reason. I just wonder what it will take for parents to take up the fight in good numbers to get the places they deserve too?

tiny, honestly, it is fine.

It's slow and a bit annoying and yes, sometimes you lose a bit of dignity or you have to cope with your delightful newborn pawing at loo roll/your toddler attempting gleefully to wipe your arse or dabble in the water. But it's not the end of the world.

Here is the link to the changing places website that explains what they are about
www.changing-places.org/the_campaign/what_are_changing_places_toilets_.aspx

Interestingly, as you may know, Waitrose has re-named the disabled loos and they are now accessible with the added line- 'Not all disabilities are visible.'

Today I saw a mum and 2 children coming out of the 'disabled/baby change loo'. Both kids were old enough to use a proper loo. But I guess one would need to be left outside the cubicle if the mum used it.

At the same time, I saw a gran take her grandson into the ladies' loo- and he looked about 6, 7 or 8 years old. I thought he'd be old enough to use the accessible loo with her waiting outside-or even going in with. he had a wee and as far as I could see, when I was washing my hands, didn't flush the chain. I know this is a common topic on MN but in a small store I'd have thought he could have used the gents, or both of them in the 'disabled' loo which is also the baby change loo.

I think it's unfair for people to judge what is disabled and what isn't. I have slight IBS and sometimes I can't wait. Likewise I had years of other 'gut' issues when I had to go immediately. No one would know, from the outside. Waiting in a queue of 12 women on occasion would have been impossible.

If you have a health issue that is not visible the last thing you should feel you need do is explain to nosey people.

Jacques to be honest many councils abuse changing spaces facilities as a way of not providing space for both

So our LA shut the public toilets. With a campaign to reopen, they’re going to be funded solely from fundraising and a precept which cannot be raised.

So it’s really constrains of (a) budget and (b) space as the only way the LA would agree to a hand over was if the tiny space was multi-use. It will be a conversion of a tiny space so it either has to be compromise or not at all.

I use the disabled loos.

But I'm also disabled (VI) and have IBS so hopefully that trio will mean I don't get challenged.

DDs are 6 and 3 and I take them in with me unless the ladies are small/easy access.

Merrymumoftwo i know so many people who have campaigned for changing places, I really don't think they thought it would end up as "for all"
I really wish parents would fight for their own places and stop using facilities that were designed for disabled people. its so bloody annoying.
a baby waiting a few mins. they know nothing,
an adult/teen in a seating covered in shit will know.
I NEVER have used a disabled toilet with my nt (now adult ) child.
an able bodied parent can find a way round it. a disabled person can't.
unless the baby change is in there(imo they shouldn't be) use the "normal" toilet.

So fed up now ..... DISABILITIES ARE NOT ALWAYS VISIBLE ..... hope that you never suffer as it’s so hard going life isn’t simple so be nice when you can be xx

Jacques. Will be nice when nobody has to fight for basic facilities something I know everyone will agree with.
I know cuts have caused the loss of many facilities I wish there was an easy answer

when I was out and about with a buggy and a newborn I just picked up the newborn and went into the normal toilet
I don’t see how you can juggle your child while ripping off loo roll and sorting out sanpro and holding your trousers up off the dirty floor? I get blood on my fingers putting tampons in and it would get all over my child? With two or more children you wouldn’t even fit in the cubicle. And you can’t leave pram, shopping and handbag unattended outside the door without being robbed.

It’s unfortunate that baby changing is often integrated with the disabled loo. Very lazy of the planners. There should be more large family rooms with toilets, but there aren’t. So I’m afraid I will continue to use whatever facility I can fit into. Obviously I will give priority to a disabled person where possible.

Jacques. Will be nice when nobody has to fight for basic facilities something I know everyone will agree with.
I know cuts have caused the loss of many facilities I wish there was an easy answer

Absolutely. Our LA has basically shut all its public facilities. I’m pretty pleased we’ve got this far with the campaign to reopen to be honest.

I am disabled, and personally this wouldn't bother me.

I have a "hidden" disability though, but I still struggle with mobility. A couple years ago I was in a wheelchair and even then I'd be fine with it.

However I would be pissed off at the venue not supplying at least one cubicle large enough to accommodate a buggy that wasn't disabled access.

@BeefTomato - I totally agree with you.

I have twins, and there was no way on this planet I would've been able to get a double buggy into the ladies, or hold two wriggling babies while trying to go to the loo. I used the accessible toilets - what the hell other choice did I have?

Totally agree Samcro. It was never the intention that they should be it was about dignity and providing a facility that those with disabilities (visible and not visible) can use with dignity. I hated having no option but to lay my child on the floor to change a nappy because they were too old and big for a changing table. It was never completely obvious they were in nappies you see as otherwise able to walk. It’s incredibly frustrating to campaign for change only to have someone come along and decide you know what let’s put the only baby change facility in there so anyone can use it. An accident not dealt with fast time for us leads to extreme distress and self harm but those in the position of making these decisions don’t care as they don’t live it

Merrymumoftwo I know an accident for my adult child would be heartbreaking.

but hey they can wait. babies come first