House Problems and In Laws

[Mumwhocantfindanunusedusername]

Sorry about any grammar issues I am not great at writing. I will also try not to drip feed and be really accurate...

Myself and partner saved for a mortgage about 10 years ago and planned to buy a small house, PIL had come into inheritance and sold a business so advised they would buy us a family house outright and we could pay them back, avoiding a mortgage and having to start small. We were so happy and had no reason to distrust them so we chose a house, moved in, spent the mortgage deposit on furniture and refurbs ect. And started monthly payments to PIL. (I was stupid to not be more involved, I felt awkward as was such a large amount to loan, I didn't talk to my partner about paperwork becuase once again I am a idiot, he went round his parents so many times to go through things and I stupidly assumed this was him sorting the house being ours and a formal payment plan).

Anyway 10 yearsish later we are at the pub discussing that we are getting a smart meter to save money and they said we can't as it might affect their next tenants or renting in future!

I was a bit bemused but carried on and when we got home discussed it and agreed partner would chat with his dad as we thought we were paying off the house to own, not renting.

In the conversation his dad said the house wasn't ours, that because partner will get everything in his inheritance it doesn't matter anyway and we should trust that they will give it us without paperwork, that we are renting and not paying off the house cost.

My partner loves his parents and doesn't seem to mind that we moved in under false pretences but I am so upset.

If anything happened to them health wise we don't own the house so it would need to be sold for their care and in all honesty people live til 90-100 now adays and I don't want to base my financial independence on dead in-laws. Finally if we are renting and they do live to 100 healthily we will pay off the house twice if not more!

Now we are saving for a mortgage on a small house as my partner agrees we can't wait for them to die to get on the housing ladder. Its hard to save with children and while paying rent and needing to downsize and Im just slightly begrudging that we would have half owned our original house by now if they hadn't put us in this position.

I honestly feel hurt by it all. I feel tricked into moving into a home and renting. I feel angry at my partner as I am cutting back so much so we can move out and get our own home as soon as possible and I'm upset at my in-laws as if they told us they were buying a house for us to rent I would have declined!

Let me know if I am being unreasonable as writing this I feel like I sound like a ungrateful brat BUT of my in-laws get sick and need to sell their houses, me and my family will be stuck and I just wish someone would have told me that was the position I was in!

Furthermore when MIL wants to come round I now feel like I don't have a choice. All the times she commented on the messy house she was obviously looking at her investment and I just feel like I can't even paint without their permission now!

good point :)

This has made me incredibly angry on your behalf, OP. What a pair of money-grabbing bastards your ILs are!

I'd hold off insisting on a tenancy agreement or safety certificates, or witholding rent for now. There's an outside chance that they may have created a protected tenancy by dint of allowing occupation in return for rental payments, and if that's the case, it would be very difficult for them to do anything to get you out. That's one of the things you need to ask a solicitor about. If they have created a protected tenancy, it might even be rent controlled and you might be entitled to get the rent reduced, which would really piss them off.

That's one of the reasons why I think it's imperative that you get legal advice asap.

Once you know where you stand legally, then you can consider your options on things like asking for the money you spent on improvements to be refunded, getting the right safety certificates and so on.

I'm also convinced that they must have committed some sort of offence by telling you that you were repaying a loan when you were merely paying rent (fraud?). Out of interest, were they charging you the full market rent or was it less than you'd expect to pay for a similar house? Have a look on Rightmove and see how much comparable rental properties in the area go for.

While it's possible that your DP knew what was going on, I also find it plausible that he was simply hoodwinked too. And understandably so: who would ever dream that their own parents could lie and rip them off like this? A lot of people don't understand the ins and outs of mortgages and owning property until they buy one of their own.

Whatever you do, DON'T sign an assured shorthold tenancy agreement if they offer you one. You will then have no security and if relations between you all break down, you could be given 2 months notice and then have to get out. You may well have more security if you stay as you are.

But please, please go and see a solicitor asap, on your own initially.

Oh, and your grammer is fine, much better than mine would be if I was in your shoes! You must be so shocked and upset, I really feel for you.

OP if I were you I would be very careful how you play this. If you take any legal action or use threats of informing HMRC you will surely open a whole can of worms with your in laws and DH that you couldn’t undo. Think about it this way. They own 5 houses. What’s their value/net worth? Approximately? Do they have pensions? Are the properties mortgaged?
How old are in laws? What’s their lifestyle like? How much of their net worth will be liable for inheritance tax? Do your sums. Knowledge is power. It may be worth your while to keep quiet and bide your time. Pay as little as you can in “rent”. Make up some financial woe story. Your husband will inherit the lot one day. Whatever’s left after care costs, if that scenario happens.

You have squatter’s rights (I think?) after 9 years.

They've been paying "rent", so not squatting. Adverse possession won't apply, I'm pretty sure.

Op really has been taken for a mug here, and it sounds as though her husband has been fully complicit in the deception. It's a really outrageous and shocking deception aimed at you.

I wonder though whether the parents ended up taking out the mortgage as they could get an interest only mortgage, which probably wouldn't have been possible for op and her husband. It would be MUCH cheaper than a repayment loan. However, this means that the whole amount of the loan would still be outstanding. This might (and it's a big 'might') have seemed like a good idea and helpful at the time.

OP -you need to get all the details of the mortgage including what type of mortgage this is, and how much the payments are monthly- have the inlaws been profiting by charging you a higher rent than the monthly mortgage payment?

You definitely need to get all the information together as Nauticant has advised, and see a solicitor ON YOUR OWN. Going by what you have told us, I would imagine that a good solicitor could manoevre the inlaws into making a fair settlement to you. A solicitor just for you, would be someone you could trust to protect your interests. I don't think you can trust a word your husband or the inlaws say at all.

You will need to gather as much proof of all the information as you can, to take to the solicitor. Fight to be given all of the equity in your home!

And don't separate from your husband at this stage until this matter is settled.

I would write down literally everything that you’ve done to the house that should be a landlords responsibility - total it up and work out how many months rent it equates to. Then tell them to recoup your money, you won’t be paying rent for x amount of months, then you’ll move out and they can sell or do whatever the hell they want with it. You can put rent for the free months to the money for your deposit. I’m sorry to say but you and your partner have been royally stitched up. You’re not being unreasonable - I’d be fuming.

@ Lalaland
The fact that her husband may inherit the lot one day is of no use really to the OP. What if he divorces her next week or anytime before they die?

I agree though that it needs very careful handling at this stage. No reporting to HMRC etc. yet or agreeing to any half baked offers they may make to her. Independent solicitor's advice is vital!

Meanwhile get making those lists of all the costs you've ever paid out for maintenance, repairs, improvements, house insurance for the last ten years, so you know what you would be entitled to ask the inlaws to reimburse to you. But see a solicitor BEFORE you agree anything. Don't sign anything and make sure your husband doesn't either.

Reported @Tierdfather, and whilst you are at it get your kids tutor to teach you the difference between there, their and they’re!

OMG they sound horrendous - you must have legal recourse! I would register my interest on the title at Land registry

OP if I were you I would be very careful how you play this. If you take any legal action or use threats of informing HMRC you will surely open a whole can of worms with your in laws and DH that you couldn’t undo.

Yes, but this doesn't mean that OP should hold off on getting legal advice. I realise you didn't say that, but it could be read that way, and OP is already reluctant to go to a solicitor, so I don't want her to put that off.

OP, you need to know where you stand legally, before you can decide how to tackle this. That is why EVERYONE is telling you to get legal advice.

Have a look at the Shelter website too, to find out about your rights as a tenant, and landlords' responsibilities.

OP - You need to make it very clear to your inlaws that you still do not consider yourself their tenant. To do so could maybe be used against you if it ever goes to court.

Please tell us that you have made a solicitor's appointment, use this month's rent to pay for it

Holy hell, I can’t believe what monsters your ILs are. I would be done with them forever, once I had got legal advice. Even if there isn’t a tenancy, they haven’t protected a deposit, got any safety certs or declared their income (I bet). You need to get advice separate to your H as he must have known. I would be so angry, in fact, I am on your behalf. They have stolen financial security from you and profited on the increase in house prices.

The thought of this happening to you makes me feel sick. I never say go NC but if this happened I could never speak to them again. Utter greed on their part. Do sad for you.

Speaking to a solicitor now is essential. You don’t have to tell the ILs about it.

That's really shocking! They've wasted 10 years of your and your husband's life with you both paying rent to them when you could have lived in the home you were saving up for and paid 10 years off your mortgage, they have misled you and it's greed on behalf of your inlaws

Oh my goodness! This is frightening reading op, I really do feel for you. I hope your head is clearer for a walk.

Definitely time to get advice from a solicitor, initially without your husband. Wishing you whatever strength you need to deal with this.

I’d be furious. More than just the money side isn’t it? It’s the deception and deceit over a decade to get your head around. It al sounds incredibly controlling.

Good luck with sorting it out and moving foreword.

OP, whatever you do, don’t let this go easy. You know that this happened. Your husband and his parents made an agreement to carve you out of your security. They lied to you and your parents. Why do the parents now deserve your respect or any sort of relationship with your children. They are lying deceitful people. You can perhaps let your husband off for being weak or misguided- I think that is being generous so don’t let him off too easy x remember he knew and he let you be blissfully ignorant. Get unbiased legal advice for your benefit and armed with it, throw an almighty strop. All of your toys out of the pram. Make it clear that if they do not make steps to resolve this properly then your relationship with them is at an end. Call them out for the liars they are and if you have anything to threaten (good relations with grandkids, HMRC), throw it in for good measure. Don’t be a pushover. Make this as hard for them as it is for you - only fair.

If you are renting I would be asking them for any money paid for repairs over the years such as plumbers as their responsible. Gas safety boiler checks etc. Basically their treating you like tenants and reaping the benefits as if your home owners paying for it all. Who pays building insurance? That should be them also so ask for it refunding

Hope your ok op.
I’ve read the full thread they are horrendous.
Please please seek legal advice without DH

I’ve RTFT and it’s just awful, OP.

Your OP refers to MIL saying ‘next tenants.’ Why would there be next tenants if their agreement with DH (sorry, another one who believes he knew the situation) was that you’d live there indefinitely?

You really need legal advice. If you’re close to your parents maybe speak with them for advice and support outside of MN, and maybe one can accompany you to the solicitor.

Out of interest, were they charging you the full market rent or was it less than you'd expect to pay for a similar house?

This is really important. If you have been paying a monthly sum equivalent to a mortgage repayment rather than market rent, that would be a lot less.

Many people are suggesting you add up everything you've spent on the house so far and bill them for it as 'landlords', but if they're as money grabbing as they sound they could equally come back with a bill for the balance of market rent for the last 10 years.

I'm not for one moment suggesting you shouldn't do this but you absolutely must get legal advice and do your sums first.

YOU NEED TO GET LEGAL ADVICE - WITHOUT DH - TODAY

Wow OP. This is a horrendous situation. I also feel that your DH knew.

You need to write down a list of questions that need answering. It's time to get angry OP, because you need to sort this out and protect yourself ASAP.

Agree with pp who said that this is one of the worst examples of financial abuse I've read about on here. So sorry, OP.