House Problems and In Laws

[Mumwhocantfindanunusedusername]

Sorry about any grammar issues I am not great at writing. I will also try not to drip feed and be really accurate...

Myself and partner saved for a mortgage about 10 years ago and planned to buy a small house, PIL had come into inheritance and sold a business so advised they would buy us a family house outright and we could pay them back, avoiding a mortgage and having to start small. We were so happy and had no reason to distrust them so we chose a house, moved in, spent the mortgage deposit on furniture and refurbs ect. And started monthly payments to PIL. (I was stupid to not be more involved, I felt awkward as was such a large amount to loan, I didn't talk to my partner about paperwork becuase once again I am a idiot, he went round his parents so many times to go through things and I stupidly assumed this was him sorting the house being ours and a formal payment plan).

Anyway 10 yearsish later we are at the pub discussing that we are getting a smart meter to save money and they said we can't as it might affect their next tenants or renting in future!

I was a bit bemused but carried on and when we got home discussed it and agreed partner would chat with his dad as we thought we were paying off the house to own, not renting.

In the conversation his dad said the house wasn't ours, that because partner will get everything in his inheritance it doesn't matter anyway and we should trust that they will give it us without paperwork, that we are renting and not paying off the house cost.

My partner loves his parents and doesn't seem to mind that we moved in under false pretences but I am so upset.

If anything happened to them health wise we don't own the house so it would need to be sold for their care and in all honesty people live til 90-100 now adays and I don't want to base my financial independence on dead in-laws. Finally if we are renting and they do live to 100 healthily we will pay off the house twice if not more!

Now we are saving for a mortgage on a small house as my partner agrees we can't wait for them to die to get on the housing ladder. Its hard to save with children and while paying rent and needing to downsize and Im just slightly begrudging that we would have half owned our original house by now if they hadn't put us in this position.

I honestly feel hurt by it all. I feel tricked into moving into a home and renting. I feel angry at my partner as I am cutting back so much so we can move out and get our own home as soon as possible and I'm upset at my in-laws as if they told us they were buying a house for us to rent I would have declined!

Let me know if I am being unreasonable as writing this I feel like I sound like a ungrateful brat BUT of my in-laws get sick and need to sell their houses, me and my family will be stuck and I just wish someone would have told me that was the position I was in!

Furthermore when MIL wants to come round I now feel like I don't have a choice. All the times she commented on the messy house she was obviously looking at her investment and I just feel like I can't even paint without their permission now!

Gather all paperwork that you can get your hands on.
I would then contact a solicitor to see if you have any rights to the property given you have been contributing for ten years and have no tenancy agreement. Also ask their advice regarding recouping any money you have paid for renovations.
I wouldn't discuss this with the in-laws until you are certain of your position.

I’m another in the dh might not have known about it you know him better than us and it can be a very very hard pill to swallow when you learn your adored parents are actually arseholes.
Be kind to one another....
but I would echo the others advice about seeing a solicitor to protect your interests. You don’t need to tell dh, but if you legally know where you stand you’ll feel much better placed when the bull shit starts to spin.

BTW - in terms of legal advice - you are probably entitled to some legal advice with your house insurance - check that out. A lot of people don't realise that there is normally cover for legal advice in home insurance.

Not sure where the "I bet they're not declaring income", and "I bet they haven't got gas or elec safety certs" ideas come from,

Well, the gas safety certificate is obvious! As landlords, it's their legal duty to have the boiler and any gas appliances, checked for safety every year. That would have been a clue to OP that they were renting, not buying.
And as they haven't done that, it's quite likely they're also not acting legally in other areas, such as paying tax on the rental income.

BTW, not doing the certificates, (which comes under the HSE) can lead to very large fines, and possibly prison sentences.

but have agreed to renovate the house and sort maintenance issues in lieu of rent.

You’re actually improving the value of THEIR house and they could turn around and sell it out from under you, spread sheet or not!

Even if they do die and you inherit, you will have to pay stamp duty on the house to transfer it to your name. And potentially pay inheritance tax on the value too.

It appears to me,probably wrong,but that they were thinking that as you and their son are not married,if you split up,you would be entitled to at least half of the house.Your dp,if this was the case,would be aware and in agreement,else he would have told you.
Be very careful to ensure you protect yourself and dc.
Sorry that sounds very gloomy but better to protect yourself financially than be hit a second time.

Stop paying rent and let them try to get you out! You have squatter’s rights (I think?) after 9 years. Do nothing else to the house and either demand a proper tenancy or ask them to actually sign it over as promised. I think your dh knows far more than he’s letting on. No way, after multiple meetings, could he be unaware of to who, the house belonged. He’s taking you for a mug, sorry.

OP you really do need legal advice, regardless of what you then decide to do with it. You need to see a solicitor WITHOUT your DP. You do not need his permission, but for so many reasons, you really should get advice.

Karma (and others), the OP has already said she is married.

I think you have been deceived. I find it inconceivable that your DP (and you tbh) never asked to see the deeds of the house/terms of loan repayment over the last 10 years. Nobody does that. Did he know? Did his parents tell him this was the best way to protect his interests if you were to break up?

But all is not lost. If you have no rental contract you do not have to pay rent to your in laws. So you can start saving now for your new home while they either work out how to evict you or come up with a more equitable solution. How have you been paying the rent? Cash? Have your in laws been paying tax on it? If they have not that puts you in strong negotiating position.

We are not in the UK.

In our situation they do have problems with their paperwork. They didn't declare the income and are currently under investigation into their taxes. They also haven't been granted permanent residence where we live and we have.

I agree our situation isn't ideal and I don't feel entirely secure but it's the best I can do for now. My DH knows that is entirely possible that they could sell from under us but it absolutely adamant they won't and says that if they did they'd never see their grandchildren again.

You don’t have to pay stamp duty to register change of ownership on the Land Registry. Where do people get this nonsense from? How would it be calculated if no money’s changed hands?

Another one saying you should get independent legal advice. What a cruel thing to do.

You were told by them that you were buying an asset, but they were just taking your money. What they have done to you, with or without your DH's involvement, sounds to me to be a type of fraud, possibly "Obtain Money by Deception", which is a crime that carries a jail term: www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/fraud-act-2006.

Taking it immediately to the police isn't probably the best way of handling this, but what you need is a solicitor who can verify all the details. Every email, letter or text you can find as well as the proof of "rent" payments, house improvement payments, building insurance etc. You solicitor should then advise you on next steps to try to recoup your money; they may advise you have obtained an interest in the property or they may advise that you need a civil or criminal prosecution as next steps. A letter explaining the financial losses in detail and a discussion about handing the matter over to the police to deal with might change your in-laws minds about this matter regardless.

What you must do is make it very clear to your DH and in-laws that you will not let this money go without a very big fight. You do not need to just put up with having this money taken from you. You should also get the house valued asap; your loss is every penny you put in to improve the house, all your rent, any property gain in value, and any building insurance.

FWIW, I think your DH may have known originally but forgotten the details because they didn't affect him negatively, or he also naively assumed they would transfer the house when he decided it was ok and got a nasty shock when they disagreed. You know him best and his next actions will help you see.

So, if you live in a property and pay rent and you don't have a tenancy agreement, you are still tenants.
But if you (that's the OP and her DH) were NOT in agreement that you were tenants, it seems unlikely that you'd have a tenancy:

www.landlordlaw.co.uk/openns/tenancies-without-tenancy-agreements

But they can't kick you out at least.

How does your payment relate to a market rent for your property?
If you are paying way over the market rent, then that's another point in your favour.

As others have said it's very likely they are not declaring this rent. 10 years of back taxes would be horrendous.
So, it might be worth saying "let's put this payment for the house on a formal footing, oh, you think we're paying rent? And you've been declaring this to the tax man? No? So that's 10 years plus fines? And possibly a custodial sentence?
OK, let's go back to my original point, we need a formal agreement that we are paying off this house".

What they have done to you, with or without your DH's involvement, sounds to me to be a type of fraud, possibly "Obtain Money by Deception",

Yes and I imagine you have - apart from your own spreadsheet - something in writing e.g. emails to parents, messagesfrom your own parents when they were booking to take your PILs out to dinner etc. etc.

One problem in this is that the OP doesn't know what was agreed between her DH and his parents. It's all very well to talk about what she should do but without knowing the agreements that exist, then that's acting in the dark, and possibly to the OP's disadvantage.

The first thing for the OP to do would be to have a proper discussion about this with her DH so he can give an account of what he believes was agreed and then to have a discussion with his parents in which they are asked to set out what agreements they believe exist. (Agreements don't have to be on paper, they can be what was agreed verbally.)

Once this information is available, the OP can take advice about what rights she and her family have in the house as tenants. Just stopping paying rent could see them being evicted although how that would go depends on what kind of tenancy agreement exists.

The goal I think the OP should be working towards is a payment from the ILs to reflect value added to the house, leaving those improvements in place, and then taking the payment to be used as a deposit on a place the OP owns. With her DH if they stay together.

Added to that I believe, along with other posters, that the DH was complicit in what was done, even if it was him just being cowardly, and all the running around and selling stuff is just a performance because he is worried that if the OP wakes up to the seriousness of this and how badly he has deceived her, he could be looking at divorce.

Post seeing a solicitor, (you REALLY need to see a solicitor, you may actually find that you can claw back what you’ve paid in in the absence of rental agreement/lack of rental agreement, (I’m not a solicitor so I’m merely speculating).
If things were to get nasty with your PILs, I wouldn’t be above shopping them anonymously to HMRC. I presume they have declared a dime of rental income on your property.

What MRex said -

'what you need is a solicitor who can verify all the details'

and

'You should also get the house valued asap; your loss is every penny you put in to improve the house, all your rent, any property gain in value' and any building insurance.

I don't know why but you choosing nice wallpaper for your bedroom made me sad.

Can you get angry and get legal advice. I think you might have a good claim and certainly the in-laws have committed various tax and rental difficulties for themselves.

I would be NC with them if not resolved and I wouldn't care what my DH felt about the consequences for his relationship with them.

You aren't married so what makes you thi k. You'd get his life insurance?
What a total mess.

Yep, just what I was thinking:

They have conned you into paying rent for 10 years and carrying out extensive renovations, which if you add it all up sounds a round 50-100k, maybe even more

That sounds like obtaining money by deception / fraud

You need to know where you stand - and what leverage you have with your PILs

See a solicitor WITHOUT your DH - he is either complicit, or totally stupid from FOG
Collect all your documentation & correspondence about repaying this "loan"

Do NOT take posters advice to divorce, at least until this has been settled, or you would leave with nothing.

The OP has said they are married

Wow. I really feel for you. What a shitty thing to do. Hope you get good legal advice and hope pills get their comeuppance. Chiselling bastards.