House Problems and In Laws

[Mumwhocantfindanunusedusername]

Sorry about any grammar issues I am not great at writing. I will also try not to drip feed and be really accurate...

Myself and partner saved for a mortgage about 10 years ago and planned to buy a small house, PIL had come into inheritance and sold a business so advised they would buy us a family house outright and we could pay them back, avoiding a mortgage and having to start small. We were so happy and had no reason to distrust them so we chose a house, moved in, spent the mortgage deposit on furniture and refurbs ect. And started monthly payments to PIL. (I was stupid to not be more involved, I felt awkward as was such a large amount to loan, I didn't talk to my partner about paperwork becuase once again I am a idiot, he went round his parents so many times to go through things and I stupidly assumed this was him sorting the house being ours and a formal payment plan).

Anyway 10 yearsish later we are at the pub discussing that we are getting a smart meter to save money and they said we can't as it might affect their next tenants or renting in future!

I was a bit bemused but carried on and when we got home discussed it and agreed partner would chat with his dad as we thought we were paying off the house to own, not renting.

In the conversation his dad said the house wasn't ours, that because partner will get everything in his inheritance it doesn't matter anyway and we should trust that they will give it us without paperwork, that we are renting and not paying off the house cost.

My partner loves his parents and doesn't seem to mind that we moved in under false pretences but I am so upset.

If anything happened to them health wise we don't own the house so it would need to be sold for their care and in all honesty people live til 90-100 now adays and I don't want to base my financial independence on dead in-laws. Finally if we are renting and they do live to 100 healthily we will pay off the house twice if not more!

Now we are saving for a mortgage on a small house as my partner agrees we can't wait for them to die to get on the housing ladder. Its hard to save with children and while paying rent and needing to downsize and Im just slightly begrudging that we would have half owned our original house by now if they hadn't put us in this position.

I honestly feel hurt by it all. I feel tricked into moving into a home and renting. I feel angry at my partner as I am cutting back so much so we can move out and get our own home as soon as possible and I'm upset at my in-laws as if they told us they were buying a house for us to rent I would have declined!

Let me know if I am being unreasonable as writing this I feel like I sound like a ungrateful brat BUT of my in-laws get sick and need to sell their houses, me and my family will be stuck and I just wish someone would have told me that was the position I was in!

Furthermore when MIL wants to come round I now feel like I don't have a choice. All the times she commented on the messy house she was obviously looking at her investment and I just feel like I can't even paint without their permission now!

I am aware that I have issues around homes and security but this would absolutely devastate me. My heart is racing just imagining your situation. YANBU.

@Mumwhocantfindanunusedusername

Can't add much to this that hasn't already been said, but yeah this is a disgrace, and even though you are married to your DH, his PARENTS own the house, so if your DH died, (or you both split,) you would get fuckall.

They are ensuring you get nothing if you and your DH split up in the next few years.

I think it's bonkers that neither one of you knew about this, (in TEN YEARS,) but I get that this kind of thing does happen. (Still wondering a bit if your DH knew though sorry......)

My friend's nephew (I will call him John,) is living with his girlfriend (Lucy,) in a 2 bed semi-detached house her dad owns. They began renting it in 2015, (at the market value; the dad said he needed the full rent to pay the mortgage.)

Lucy said (in 2016) that her dad is going to let them buy it at the price he bought it for in the mid 1990s. (So he got it for £80K then, and will let them buy it for that when the mortgage is paid off, in 2018. The 2 bed semi houses in that road were selling £150-£160K, so they were getting a bargain!)

Along came 2018, and Lucy's dad said they can have the house for £130K. Not £80K like he first said. He claimed the house values were much higher than he first thought a year or so before. (They weren't.)

Also, the house needed a new bathroom, new kitchen, new windows, new doors, new flooring, new gas central heating system, new electrics, new roof, the works... nothing had been done to the house in 3 decades.

Lucy said she still wanted to go ahead and buy the house, but she wants to put a new bathroom and new kitchen in first, also new windows and new doors. Then they will get it valued!

Turned out to be her dad's idea!

So my friend told her son John 'NO.' She said he is making a mug of him (and his own daughter.) The cheeky sod is happy to have them spend £20-25K on the house before having it valued.

So they will spend all that money, and then have to spend an extra £20K to buy the house, as it will then be worth more due to the new windows, doors, kitchen, and bathroom. But then when they have bought it, they will still need to fork out for new roof and new central heating system and new electrics and new flooring!!!

My friend said to John 'he is making a mug of you AND her!'

Also, it's a terrible idea to spend money (especially £20-25K) on a house you don't own.

Sorry OP, but you are being seriously mugged off here, and I suspect your husband knows more than he is letting on.

They need to sign this house over to the two of you. If they won't, then see a solicitor! And I am also willing to bet that they are not declaring the income.

Cheeky fuckers!!!

Lucy and John by the way, are now planning on moving out soon, and buying a little cottage in the sticks. John (thankfully) managed to convince Lucy that her dad was not doing them any favours! He is OK, and the relationship is OK, but this man was doing nothing more than making sure HE was OK!

It’s so tricky. They have deceived you and caused you a financial disadvantage. I think it’s time to do some sums..How much did the house cost. How much is it worth now, total”rent” paid. Money spent on mantenance and upkeep.. on the other side. Price of smaller property you would have bought, and what that is now worth. Be Cayuse the increased value of these properties is also an advantage.
Then I would ask for a meeting with you, dh ,dpils and your parents. I would ask them what their understanding was at the time. I would explain that you now feel extremely insecure. But I would also ask if you could come to some agreement about how to proceed in a fair way. I would, openly, record the meeting. I would keep everything very civil. Grandchildren; contact would not be used as a threat..
If this doesn’t work, or result in a happier outcome, and for me I hat would involve transfer of ownership or equity release, I would visit a solicitor.

I absolutely would NOT divorce now!
The OP would be financially fucked!
They've got nothing! She would lose everything and be homeless with no claim to a property and no money!

They can be jailed for not having a gas safety cert.
Have you been paying market rent? Or more because you wanted to pay off the 'loan'?

If they have sat back while you paid all the building insurance, repair fees, rates etc then they knew damn well that you thought you were buying the property. All those costs are born by the landlord, not the renter.

What jerks. I think you need to ask your DH outright what the agreement he made with his parents was.

I agree that you should be getting legal advice. Good Luck!

I am generally in favour of not falling out with family, and very much in favour of giving people the benefit of the doubt.

But in this case, you have been mislead into paying for and investing heavily in a house for your PIL to own. You have been tricked out of the chance to buy a house in a much more favourable market, which would now be half paid off. Your DP is either an idiot, or was happy to mislead you. I would be telling him that if the house isn't transferred to you, you will not be contributing to it further, nor will you be leaving without a legal dispute. I also would not be seeing your PIL until the matter was resolved.

To be honest I would lodge an interest in the property on the basis of the repairs you have carried out. Contact HMRC regarding the “rent” then ring the council about the lack of gas safety certificate and stop paying the “rent” as to evict you they need to issue the correct paperwork at which point they need the gas safety anyway. They also need to issue 24hour notice to enter the property at which you can refuse anyway and if they enter without permission since your a tenant they are acting illegally.

Fuck em op they have fucked you for 10 years.

I’m sure neither of these scenarios would happen but it needs to be discussed, If you get divorced or your husband dies before you or your in-laws then you have to rely on the grace of your in-laws and it doesn’t sound like they have any. His second wife would benefit from future inheritances and your refurbishments, not you.

What if someone else makes a claim on the estate ? It’s absurd.

This is your financial future and your security. As a Mother I would want my son and his future wife (he is 2 though) to have independence, security and something to work for, a sense of financial esteem and achievement. These people are not acting in your best interests, they’re controlling your interests.

Talk to your husband about all the various scenarios, what if you wanted to renovate and move or upgrade or invest against the house. I mean you can’t even install a little money saving device.

Husband needs to talk to his parents and explore legal options or you need to move. Look on the bright side, property might take a hit so would be a good time to buy,

Not as good a market as ten years ago. Stand up for yourself op. Financial and housing security is so important. My sincere sympathy that you have been mislead. Don’t have regrets or beat yourself up about doing things differently. You are normal for wanting to trust family and they are the wrong ones for breaking and taking advantage of that trust.

Do your parents have a good relationship with your in-laws? Could they talk to them? I couldn't stay quiet if it were me. I'd be arranging for a meeting and take a long list of all the things over the years that have made you believe you were paying the house off. I'd also take a list of all the money that has been spent on repairs and improvements to the house. If you rent you don't buy new floors! Maybe they could lay you back on all that and it will provide the deposit you need sooner?

Your dh and yourself having a couple of chats with a solicitor to see where you stand would make sense, especially based on what others have implied about no tenants agreements etc.

I would be beyond angry and disappointed with your dh and with yourself, rather than your inlaws for not being fully aware of the details of the agreement and having something in writing from a solicitor for something so big.

I assume you knew the house didn't actually belong to you, you would have to tell your insurance providers this.

This...

YANBU it’s shit, but you’ve learned your lesson. Get saving and get out. Good luck

To be honest, this is one of the worst cases of deceptive financial abuse I’ve seen on MN. That’s saying something.

So sorry OP

Can i suggest you go and get some legal advice on your position here. Ask your other half what documentation he has , if any, and see what the solicitor sayd

I'd genuinely never speak to them again.

Let your partner maintain his relationship and make his own decisions on that front without putting any pressure on him to do the same or making any snide comments etc

But in your position I'd calmly and simply let it be known that I would never have any contact with them again

Not sure where the "I bet they're not declaring income", and "I bet they haven't got gas or elec safety certs" ideas come from, but even if right, that's the least of things to worry about.
DH probably knew or at least, knew it would be alright in the end (for him and his parents).
OP, get legal advice, but not to start a huge court case, just to know what the lie of the land is. It may be that you could come out of this quite nicely without having to sue in any way. Once you're fully armed with legal knowledge, who knows....you could 'encourage' the in-laws to sell it it to you at a reasonable price, ie, taking into account the subterfuge, your loss of deposit and the work you've done, and what you would have paid off in 10yrs, and maybe a sizeable goodwill gesture.

To be honest I'd not want them around my children either. They've potentially fucked any assurance you could've provided them. You're now going to be paying a mortgage much longer and at a much higher price than originally intended which could impact them in University or if they decide to join the property ladder.

My dad did this to us.. and almost managed to do it a second time.

First time, he bought 17yo me a flat, my name on the deeds and he was the "guarantor" on the mortgage. Turned out to be lies, he had went behind my back and added his name as joint tenants. Didn't know anything about it until we had a falling out and he forced the sale of the flat.

Second time, (this was before I knew anything about the joint tenants on the flat), DP and I were buying a house together and he generously offered us a deposit... wonderful! Found a house.. about to sign on the dotted line.. when our solicitor told us that my dad had arranged for it to be me and him on the deeds, not DP. Massive U-Turn!

This is definitely a financial control thing, OP. And as strange as it may sound, it could be possible that your DH genuinely was in the dark over this. I certainly was, and I was so deep in FOG that I would (and did) let my dad sort everything and believed he would never screw me over in any way. Your DH needs to sort this. Tell him to put his foot down and say he wants his "inheritance" now.

OP, you admit you were stupid not to be involved with all the meetings when this was all being arranged, don't compound that stupidity by not getting legal advice now you know the situation.

It is imperative that YOU (not with your husband) go and see a solicitor, as you may have legal recourse to getting some of that money back.

I understand that you're tired, but you're just going to have to plough through it.

Your husband is complicit in this I'm afraid. Selling a few bits of his, is because he's now feeling guilty, and worried that this enormous deceit will lead you to divorce him, so it's damage control. He's hoping you'll believe he is innocent, and will see him selling his most treasured "things" as proof that he couldn't have known.

Your ILs are despicable people, especially to have the gall to sit there with your parents thanking them, and not say anything.

Right now, I think you need a few days away from your husband. Go and stay with your parents for a few days, and tell them what's happened. They can give you support, and help you with getting legal advice. You can no longer rely on support from your husband, because he will be thinking about himself, and his relationship with his parents.

OP- get legal advice (on your own if DP won't wake up) about your situation. You've been defrauded and you have legal options.

Perhaps you need a lawyers letter setting out your rights here, and then support negotiating with your in laws. They need to put the house in your name, or compensate you for the money you have lost as a result of them lying to you.

They have done this to cut you out of the asset pool. It's made you financially vulnerable. They are controlling people who do not wish you well. You need to advocate for yourself here, don't trust them.

Mother of god.. i'd be absolutely fuming.

I agree with the other posters. You need to find all the paperwork you and your H have and visit the solicitors, by yourself.

I can't see that your H had no idea you weren't repaying a loan, but paying rent. He knew, he knew and he's been happily screwing you over along with his parents for the last 10 years.

I would seriously be questioning my relationship right now... he's being such a wet lettuce because he knew.

If you have evidence that you were paying the first four years under false pretences, id be looking into trying to get that money back too.

I am so sorry this has happened to you. My ILs are rich and awful and have never offered to help us in the past but even when we have been desperate - my husband was made redundant when our first baby was 6 weeks only which meant I had to go back to work with an 18 week old breastfed baby and still they didn't offer so much as a loaf of bread. They do regularly criticise that I have always put my career first and ahead of his. But my husband knows what they are like and we have always acted together. We wouldn't take anything off them ever - not that they ahve ever offered. You need to be sure he is on your side and you need to move on with your life in your own house even if it is tiny and needs work. Independence is a wonderful thing. If he sides with them I think you will know what you have to do .

I am in exactly the same situation. We have stopped paying them rent because they wouldn't fix damp issues that a conventional landlord would. We still haven't got them to hand over the house as promised but have agreed to renovate the house and sort maintenance issues in lieu of rent. I keep spreadsheets of everything we spend. In terms of relationships, we have frosty periods but everyone knows where they stand.

Stop paying rent, they don’t deserve any more of your money, what a shit situation, scamming sods.

It is no harm to start saving now anyway.
But you need to speak to a solicitor - individually and as a couple and then as a couple you need to sit down an speak to his parents and make it clear that this is not the arrangement you agreed.

I understand that this is a shock to you (both?) so saving in the short to medium term is a good safety net.

If after talking/challenging his parents on the situation, they throw a strop and make life difficult, at least you will have savings behind you to move. And then throw them to the wolves in terms of revenue and renters rights etc.