House Problems and In Laws

[Mumwhocantfindanunusedusername]

Sorry about any grammar issues I am not great at writing. I will also try not to drip feed and be really accurate...

Myself and partner saved for a mortgage about 10 years ago and planned to buy a small house, PIL had come into inheritance and sold a business so advised they would buy us a family house outright and we could pay them back, avoiding a mortgage and having to start small. We were so happy and had no reason to distrust them so we chose a house, moved in, spent the mortgage deposit on furniture and refurbs ect. And started monthly payments to PIL. (I was stupid to not be more involved, I felt awkward as was such a large amount to loan, I didn't talk to my partner about paperwork becuase once again I am a idiot, he went round his parents so many times to go through things and I stupidly assumed this was him sorting the house being ours and a formal payment plan).

Anyway 10 yearsish later we are at the pub discussing that we are getting a smart meter to save money and they said we can't as it might affect their next tenants or renting in future!

I was a bit bemused but carried on and when we got home discussed it and agreed partner would chat with his dad as we thought we were paying off the house to own, not renting.

In the conversation his dad said the house wasn't ours, that because partner will get everything in his inheritance it doesn't matter anyway and we should trust that they will give it us without paperwork, that we are renting and not paying off the house cost.

My partner loves his parents and doesn't seem to mind that we moved in under false pretences but I am so upset.

If anything happened to them health wise we don't own the house so it would need to be sold for their care and in all honesty people live til 90-100 now adays and I don't want to base my financial independence on dead in-laws. Finally if we are renting and they do live to 100 healthily we will pay off the house twice if not more!

Now we are saving for a mortgage on a small house as my partner agrees we can't wait for them to die to get on the housing ladder. Its hard to save with children and while paying rent and needing to downsize and Im just slightly begrudging that we would have half owned our original house by now if they hadn't put us in this position.

I honestly feel hurt by it all. I feel tricked into moving into a home and renting. I feel angry at my partner as I am cutting back so much so we can move out and get our own home as soon as possible and I'm upset at my in-laws as if they told us they were buying a house for us to rent I would have declined!

Let me know if I am being unreasonable as writing this I feel like I sound like a ungrateful brat BUT of my in-laws get sick and need to sell their houses, me and my family will be stuck and I just wish someone would have told me that was the position I was in!

Furthermore when MIL wants to come round I now feel like I don't have a choice. All the times she commented on the messy house she was obviously looking at her investment and I just feel like I can't even paint without their permission now!

Poor you OP, I'd be incandescent with rage. Sorry but I don't believe that your DH was as confused about his DP's structuring of your agreement as he pretends, I'm sure his DP's made a good pitch about how it will all work out in your's and his benefit in the end etc. so it's no big deal.

What struck me is that this arrangement appears to keep the property in your DH's family's hands and I almost wonder if your PILs have done it this way so that if you ever split up you don't get anything (my friend has experienced precisely this situation, when she eloped with her DH his family found out afterwards and were furious with them, because they'd been putting her DH's name on the deeds to various properties they owned and didn't want his wife getting any claim so they had tantrums and caused a massive family row until she signed a post-nuptial agreement to keep the peace).

What this arrangement does though is screw you out of ten years of time during which you could have been saving and perhaps even have bought a house by your own means - you can't get that wasted time back now.

Frankly I don't know the best thing to do in this situation except to demand that you see whatever documents (if any?) that your DH has signed, there may well be nothing at all in even your DH's name. You also need to speak to a solicitor to find out where you stand. Personally I wouldn't alert your PILs to your discovery or that you seek legal advice, just carry on as normal and keep saving all you can.

When I read about situations like this it reinforces my own decision to never be beholden to my family or my PILs in financial matters, they are mostly all nice people but financial obligations between family members changes the balance of power and independence. My own extended family in particular have a long history of entitlement to other family members financial help and I grew up witnessing regular family feuds and resentments over who gets money from who or who feels slighted because they didn't get money they wanted etc. I love my parents but I also know they would use any financial assistance to emotionally blackmail me as they get older and needier.

Bloody hell, I just wrote and essay! Sorry OP!

I wish had found out sooner. I honestly am thinking back to everything and trying to think if I misunderstood anything but I just feel like things I have said that they haven't corrected they must have known I thought the house would be ours and we were paying them back? E.g. when they asked if we wanted to pay less when our first child was born and I said no that we would never pay the house off if we paid the amount they suggested! Or my parents taking them out to thank them for getting us on the property ladder? Did they think my parents were mad? You don't take someone out for a meal as a thank you for renting to their own child! Am going to sign off now, I have the worst headache I think from stress from reading the comments and knowing you are all right and I need to do something/ trying not to smash my house up! Will come back and let you know how I get on but think need to go for a walk or something and try to take my mind off my life!

What a clusterfuck.
Good luck.

MIL is protecting her family assets; and you're right, in the event of the PIL deaths, the house would go to DP; its then his call to put the house in both names ... or not as the case may be ... MIL may jump DP and put the house straight into GCs names with DP as a trustee - that leaves you both in a predicament.

Best you can hope for is DP to have a rational discussion with his parents... the house goes into a will trust, in the even of DP pre deceasing you and you remarrying you get life tenure but cannot sell the property, it them passes to the DC.

TBH, this is a lesson learned - how did you think you owned a property albeit by proxy without signing anything ?

Just read your update - right little property empire they have going - you need to marry DP pronto.

@PlainSpeakingStraightTalking they are married

Enjoy the walk and get your head showered. Hope it all works out ok in the end

YADNBU

However, I know you feel that the rug has been pulled from under you, but you MUST keep calm and harness the collective power of MN to help.

I think you should firstly download the title for the house. It's £3 (maybe £4) from the Land Registry's website. Make sure you get the correct site and not some spoof lookalike. Then you know exactly whose name(s) is/are on the deeds.

If you are indeed renting, get to MSE and check out all the things that landlords should be doing: annual gas safety checks, deposit protected and the correct information and renting pack handed over depending on when the tenancy started. Basically build up your evidence. Include in this the fact that you are inadvertently committing fraud by insuring your property as owner-occupied instead of renting.

Then because I am vengeful I would present the PIL with an ultimatum: transfer the house to you/DH immediately or you will shop them to HMRC, environmental health (or whoever it is that oversees gas safety), etc. I would also change the locks/barrels of all outside doors to stop them from coming in.

Sorry Op, but I agree with others who think that your dh knew
This is why he is not angry.
I would be absolutely furious

I have seen a few people put these arrangements in place in my time. Nothing wrong with it per se (as long as everyone knows what the score is, which you obviously didn’t), but it is always done to “keep it in the family” in the event of a divorce. From the point of view of the person doing it, they want to help their child, but not risk losing half that money to their child’s spouse. Again fair enough if everyone knows the score (and then the spouse can, for example, make alternative investments to protect his/her own position). I agree with the idea of at least speaking to a solicitor to get a solid idea of your rights/responsibilities/options for going forward.

If this all happened 10 years ago how old was DH? If you’ve never brought a property before, how would he know the process?

We’re any solicitors involved in the loan etc or did the PIL deal with the purchase? Did DH go along to those meetings?

Did he get any of the paperwork relating to the house sale, deal with the estate agents? I’m going to assume he left it all to the parents.

Ask them for a copy of the rental agreement.

What he been said to the PIL about the whole situation?

I agree with @gregorypeckingorder on the first page - the law is uncertain in this area but you have an equitable interest in the house.

You need to marry DP pronto and seek legal advice regarding this matter before you go on to buy another property together.

I think you should firstly download the title for the house. It's £3 (maybe £4) from the Land Registry's website. Make sure you get the correct site and not some spoof lookalike. Then you know exactly whose name(s) is/are on the deeds.

Good advice here. A solicitor will want this too.

^ THIS ^

If you aren't married, its a financial disaster for YOU. Im almost sure you partner knew it all along. Get married. Although my husband is really nice, my MIL has some kind of magical power/control, that can convince him into signing up for this kind of shit.

10 years worth rent + property price rises = LOTS of money.

He's not as angry at his parents because he knew about it all along I think.

Here's my guess. At the time you were a relatively new girlfriend at the time of the deal, so it kind of made sense for them all to protect your boyfriend's assets. Chances are the inlaws were in much better health and a decade younger so cost of care homes probably didn't even occur to them.

Over time you and your boyfriend settled down, got married, had children and by then the lie he told was too far gone and he would have risked his marriage by telling you that you were in fact renting, and not paying off a house loan. He probably took the gamble that you may never find out because he would inherit it anyway when his parents died and you would be none the wiser. Except you found out in the mean time.

The rushing around selling his possessions is damage control imo. To show you he's sorry for his part when you find out in the hopes of saving your marriage.

I really think your husband knew about the set-up from the very beginning. At this stage I'd be highly distrustful of ALL of them until you see it in front of you. I think you should ask him to get from his parents,all the paperwork relating to the agreement so you can see -for yourself- in black and white what the fuck went on.

OK, OP, good luck.

I think there are some very fair points here to face your DH with :

-How is it 'his inheritance' when he (and you) are paying the mortgage in the form of rent (presumably)?
-It is mad to be paying rent on an inheritance that will be subject to IT.
-Given that it is his parents second property, they will also be subject to Capital Gains Tax on it when they sell it. (I am not sure if CGT is payable on a second property if it is bequeathed rather than sold)

• At what point in all tis did your DH know that the house was not in his name??

It is important because it is a matter of trust between you and your DH.

Forgive me for asking, but as you say you have some difficulties with writing and grammar, do you have any dyslexia or similar? Was this partly behind your lack of familiarity with the paperwork etc?

Is there a member of your own family you can trust to be your independent back up and read everything?

It is good that your DH is now seeming to be serious about saving and buying somewhere properly.

my "THIS" referred to @Piffle11's post.

What a mess OP I can see why you are angry and have a banging headache over it all.
Someone asked earlier who buy the house insurance, as if you rent you only buy cintents insurance. If you are buying you pay for whole house insurance, this will also be ammo for if they try to say they said they were only renting to you.
Have they been buying house insurance all these years?
Who has been paying for the upkeep?
Have they been getting the boiler serviced annually so you have a certificate for it?
It sounds to me like it started out they wanted to buy your Dh a house and then they have changed their minds.
I don't suppose you have anything in writing, things like messages/texts back and forth mentioning you buying, then
m buying for you etc.

OP, do you have a will? If you have children then you definitely need a will. Tell you ILs that you are meeting with a solicitor to get one drawn up, and in order to do so you need the formal paperwork for the house ownership/tenancy.

You can't let this slide. It would be unforgivable to simply move out and start your homeownership 10 years later than you thought you had.

If I were you, I'd go stay with your parents for a few days. Confide in them. Get them to help you find a solicitor who will guide you in getting All the implications of your situation written down in black and white. Then present this info together with your spreadsheet to your DH and ILs.
What if you split from DH?
What if one of you were unable to work?
What if ILs lived into their nineties - would that mean you both have to work (to pay the rent) until they die?
What if one of your jobs meant a relocation?
What if the boiler blew up?
What if your DH died before they or you?
Do you have life insurance (often arranged as part of a mortgage)?
How much will you have spent in rent by the age of 67 versus when would you expect to have paid off a mortgage?
What interest rate did you think you were paying on these payment supposedly covering the mortgage?
Are you paying the market rate for rent? Or over/below?

Are they renting out their other properties? In which case they knew exactly what they were doing by not providing you with the same rights as the other renters.

Hideous situation.

Enjoy your walk.

To echo so many pp YOUR HUSBAND KNEW. Think about that OP. The deceitful, conniving motherfucker has known ALL ALONG.

The token selling off of a few of his toys and making the right noises at you to convince you of his innocence is merely a pantomime performance. He is just waiting for you to calm down enough before he starts the process of convincing you to stay. Please don't fall for this bullshit and be taken for more of a mug than you already have.

Thank FUCK you're married. Get copies of all the paperwork to do with the house you can lay your hands on and go and see a solicitor BY YOURSELF to find out where you stand legally.

This would 100% be the end of the relationship with both PIL and DH for me.

Christ, I thought my ex-MIL was a controlling nutcase when it came to money and properly but this makes her look like Tinkerbell.

You must get yourself to a solicitor ASAP, and I mean that literally, just you.
Take all the paperwork you have, write out a timeline and get the best advice you can on where to go from here and how best to protect yourself and your children financially going forward.

I strongly suspect your husband was aware to at least some degree of the situation, and just didn't want to rock the boat with his parents, otherwise I can't understand why he wouldn't be just as livid as you.

You cannot trust your in-laws, and whilst he may not have malevolent intentions, you clearly can't trust your husband to stand up to them either.

If your partner is struggling to be get upset with his parents maybe if you can afford it you could book a couple of sessions of couples counseling? Or talk it through with a close friend together if there is someone suitable? Might be helpful for him to see outside perspective. I would also speak to a solicitor. Good luck, I would be RAGING in your position!

Just saw that you're married. Thank fuck.

Go see a solicitor by yourself with the deeds. You must know where you stand on this. Do not take him with you.

Oh do stop screaming ‘divorce’ at this poor woman, it’s Mumnet’s default answer to everything and I’m sure it’s not helping!