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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

All natural birth?

565 replies

TerribleTwosPhase · 07/04/2019 11:08

Ok first time posting on AIBU so putting my hard hat on for this one...
Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't?
Before I had DD I was quite relaxed about my birth plan, didn't want any pain relief or anything if I could manage it, but wasn't against it. In the end after 3 days of labour with a back to back baby and not progressing I had to have an epidural. Fine that's what needed to happen to safely deliver my baby, and as my body was starting to have issues it was the safest way of processing for us both if I needed an emergency c section. I have no issues with this and understand it's just what had to happen, not my ideal birth but we are both happy and healthy so that's all that matters.
Woman on my Facebook has just announced her babies birth with the line " total natural birth, I am a lioness!"
AIBU to think that this is a bit ridiculous, be proud of yourself fair enough, but do we really need to make people feel bad about how they gave birth? Do you secretly feel better about yourself knowing you done it with no pain relief?
I'm really not trying to be goady here please don't take it like that, but does the fact that everything went textbook for someone mean it's more noteworthy than for someone who didn't? I see so many women on here who are disappointed with their birth experiences and I think things like this surely can't help?

OP posts:
Letterkennie · 08/04/2019 21:13

I don’t think it’s strange. I didn’t say that I did. And neither did Bertrand et al. Your logic is very mangled.

kiki22 · 08/04/2019 21:18

I'm thankful I didn't have an all natural birth ds1 would not have survived without intervention, ds2 may have survived but unlikely. I could have died the second time.

Natural is only good when it all goes well complications can mean dead if it's all left to nature.

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2019 21:21

“Natural is only good when it all goes well complications can mean dead if it's all left to nature.”

Yep. And even when there are no complications, “natural” is only good if that’s what the mother wants.

user68901 · 08/04/2019 21:21

The birth is only the start of it. Try not to compare as it’s just too exhausting and fuels anxiety.
Next it’ll be whose sleeps through the night, then crawling, walking,speaking, reading, mathematical genius .....it’s endless. Just try and ignore and focus on enjoying your baby.

Delatron · 08/04/2019 21:23

letterkennie you just said what Pcohke was saying was ‘strange’. Then you deny you said that.

Your posts towards Pcohle sound like gaslighting to me. Her argument is perfectly reasonable and I agree with what she’s saying.

LaurieMarlow · 08/04/2019 21:30

I totally agree with Pcole too.

Why mention breathing exercises and preparation if you don’t believe they can prevent intervention?

And if you do believe they can prevent intervention, then you are saying that other women could have done ‘more’ to achieve a ‘natural’ birth.

nanbread · 08/04/2019 21:33

My second birth was a textbook natural birth and it was brilliant. I genuinely didn't feel pain.

I'm really pleased I had the experience but in no way do I feel superior! It's basically luck or circumstance with a bit of experience thrown in (aka learning from the shitshow my first birth was).

Unfortunately even saying what an amazing and positive experience it was probably comes across as me saying I'm somehow "better" to those who had negative experiences, which is a shame.

BarrenFieldofFucks · 08/04/2019 21:36

But it is luck AND preparation in some instances.

I couldn't have done anything differently with #1, c'est la vie.

If I had been better prepared for #2 I wouldn't have had the damage I had. That's a fact sadly...I would have recognised what was going on and slowed down my breathing and pushing, which may have given me time to get to medical help before he erupted.

#3, I was determined to get what I wanted/was happy with from the staff and pushed for that. I took careful note of what my body was doing etc etc...none of which I had really done with number 2. After a very long labour with #1 I didn't see what was happening. #3, turned out perfectly.

In some instances it is both. Of course, sometime all the preparation in the world makes no difference...and sometimes luck wins out completely.

And that's ok, it's all equal.

doIreallyneedto · 08/04/2019 21:38

@Delatron - Her argument is perfectly reasonable and I agree with what she’s saying.

What are you agreeing with? Her statements that are a twisting of other posters' words or that her twisting is an accurate depiction of what has being said?

Absolutely nobody except her has said that women end up having meds or interventions because they didn't try hard enough or they didn't prepare enough. Of course claiming that would be disparaging and offensive but nobody, other than her, has even suggested that is the case.

BarrenFieldofFucks · 08/04/2019 21:43

You'd have to be very black and white to think that saying that:

  1. breathing and related preparations can help avoid intervention

is the same as saying

  1. if women tried harder at their breathing etc they wouldn't need intervention.

Because of course they CAN help. Not always of course but you're assuming that effort is the only differentiation.

leonasa · 08/04/2019 21:43

@Megan2018 that's my birth plan too 😂😂
If people want to go pain relief free then good on them but medically, there really is no benefit to that. Epidurals used to be more risky but they aren't now, so it really is largely about feeling it all. In fact some of the least medicalised births I am aware of among my friends ended up with the most complications. To me there is an element of martyrdom there, that's not a criticism of anyone, I think there is a lot of pressure for women to be martyrs at this moment (and in general). Of course, I appreciate that won't be everyone's view, and if you want to go all natural and manage it then that's great you had it as you wanted it, but my plan is certainly all the drugs and I don't think that makes my birth any lesser, no.

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2019 21:46

“Why mention breathing exercises and preparation if you don’t believe they can prevent intervention?”
One more try.
Because if you personally want a “natural “ birth without pain relief you are more likely to get one if you understand about breathing and relaxation and have practiced a bit. It’s not going to stop any of the medical issues that might get in the way- (luck, generics) but it probably will help you deal with the pain and tiredness better. There is nothing wrong with wanting pain relief. But if you don’t want it, there are things you can do to help you get through without.

PCohle · 08/04/2019 21:47

Letter: "you're doing something very strange"
Me: "I'm sorry if you think that's "very strange""
Letter: "I don't think it's strange. I didn't say that I did."

Confused But I'm the one who's twisting words...

Barren:
"1) breathing and related preparations can help avoid intervention

is the same as saying

  1. if women tried harder at their breathing etc they wouldn't need intervention."

That is exactly what I think.

doIreallyneedto · 08/04/2019 21:49

@LaurieMarlow - Why mention breathing exercises and preparation if you don’t believe they can prevent intervention?

Because breathing exercises and preparation can help women who want a natural birth to manage their labour in a way that may help them achieve it. Doing it will not guarantee a natural birth.

And if you do believe they can prevent intervention, then you are saying that other women could have done ‘more’ to achieve a ‘natural’ birth.

That is an almighty stretch! If someone wants to get chosen for a sports team, they need to spend time understanding the basics. They need to practise and put effort into it. However, no matter how much they try, there is no guarantee they will make the team. There may be a glut of really good people trying out, they may not have the physical stature that lends itself to success in that sport, they may break a leg before the try outs. The person did what they could to maximise their chances of making the team but circumstances conspired against them.

Breathing and relaxation improves your chances of having a natural birth if that is what you want. It guarantees nothing.

Delatron · 08/04/2019 21:53

I don’t see any twisting of words just a lot of backtracking when certain posters were pulled up on what they were saying.

Betrand changed what she claimed to have said to ‘decide to give it a try’ rather than what she actually said which was ‘decide to try’ which is insulting and why so many posters pulled her up on it.

Unfortunately her earlier posts are all there in black and white.

doIreallyneedto · 08/04/2019 21:54

@PCohle -"1) breathing and related preparations can help avoid intervention

is the same as saying

2) if women tried harder at their breathing etc they wouldn't need intervention."

That is exactly what I think.

If that is what you think I suggest you go and look up the definition of "can help". You will find that it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

doIreallyneedto · 08/04/2019 21:58

@Delastron - Betrand changed what she claimed to have said to ‘decide to give it a try’ rather than what she actually said which was ‘decide to try’ which is insulting and why so many posters pulled her up on it.

Decide to try and decide to give it a try mean the same thing. Trying means you are attempting to do something. To give it a try is a colloquial version of "to try".

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2019 22:02

“Betrand* changed what she claimed to have said to ‘decide to give it a try’ rather than what she actually said which was ‘decide to try’ which is insulting and why so many posters pulled her up on it.”

No I bloody didn’t. I said that luck and genetics play a part. And so does deciding to try. As in deciding that what you want to do is have a “natural” birth and so making the choice to try for one. I said nothing about trying harder or not so hard.
This is ridiculous.

Enko · 08/04/2019 22:04

I haven'tread the full thread however
Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't?

No I dont think it makes me superior to someone who had every painrelief going or an epidural or any type of painrelief..

however what I can say is that the 2 births I did have that was un medicated where by far the better experiences compared to the 2 that were medicated. the one where the medication went past what I wanted was an experience that took me many years to get past.. The first one where I was consulted and felt in charge of each decision and where I had a epidural (the most I ever had) was a positive experience.. that ultimately is what it comes down too. Feeling supported and that the people who are supporting you to give birth has your best interest at heart. Sadly the people who were there for my sons birth were a bit more concerned about my hitting the targets they felt I should hit.. (not even recommendations) so it was a struggle and a not nice experience..

I am still a Lionness though.. for all 4 of the births.

BarrenFieldofFucks · 08/04/2019 22:04

This isn't rocket science. Going into any scenario well prepared increases your chances of success. Of course, on the day, you can end up like me with #1 and have a brow presentation, back to back baby completely stuck and have an epidural and episiotomy. That was pure chance.

PCohle · 08/04/2019 22:08

But if you think it "can help" then logically you believe that for some women breathing etc is the difference between intervention and no intervention. Or else it doesn't actually help anyone.

Therefore you think that there are women who, if they had learned more or applied into practice better breathing techniques etc. could have avoided medical interventions

doIreallyneedto · 08/04/2019 22:21

@PCohle - Ffs. You are being deliberately obtuse and goady. The two are in no way equivalent.

BarrenFieldofFucks · 08/04/2019 22:31

Yes, there are some women for whom it may have made a difference. But as we will never know without a time machine that's a moot point.

But you either believe these things make fuck all difference to anyone or that they can make a difference to some. What is wrong with saying it can be helpful?

Why on earth is this such a hard thing to compute?

BarrenFieldofFucks · 08/04/2019 22:33

Is it that you think it is somehow insulting to say that these things can help? It do you genuinely not believe they do.

BarrenFieldofFucks · 08/04/2019 22:33

Or do you...Confused