All natural birth?

[TerribleTwosPhase]

Ok first time posting on AIBU so putting my hard hat on for this one...
Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't?
Before I had DD I was quite relaxed about my birth plan, didn't want any pain relief or anything if I could manage it, but wasn't against it. In the end after 3 days of labour with a back to back baby and not progressing I had to have an epidural. Fine that's what needed to happen to safely deliver my baby, and as my body was starting to have issues it was the safest way of processing for us both if I needed an emergency c section. I have no issues with this and understand it's just what had to happen, not my ideal birth but we are both happy and healthy so that's all that matters.
Woman on my Facebook has just announced her babies birth with the line " total natural birth, I am a lioness!"
AIBU to think that this is a bit ridiculous, be proud of yourself fair enough, but do we really need to make people feel bad about how they gave birth? Do you secretly feel better about yourself knowing you done it with no pain relief?
I'm really not trying to be goady here please don't take it like that, but does the fact that everything went textbook for someone mean it's more noteworthy than for someone who didn't? I see so many women on here who are disappointed with their birth experiences and I think things like this surely can't help?

[PCohle]

Personally, yes.

I have friends who found alarming birth stories very frightening and actively sought to avoid them, in order to maintain a calm and positive attitude to their own births.

I also have a relative who suffered a still birth and saying "everything that could go wrong did go wrong" when the birth ended in a healthy mother and baby is something she would have found pretty insensitive.

I personally prefer to share my birth stories only in environments where I know women are happy to hear them. There are so many reasons these sort of stories can be difficult for women - sharing them in a status where they are really difficult to avoid isn't something I would choose to do.

[DelilahfromDenmark]

Planned CSection here.
Am proud of myself for giving birth to a gorgeous girl.
Feel neither inferior nor superior to those who have different birth experiences/plans but feel empathy for women who didn’t give birth as they would have liked/had negative experiences.

[pandarific]

I had a straightforward 6 hour labour with my first with some co-codomol and a bit of gas and air, and I felt like I could have wrestled a tiger afterward - I was shaking with adrenaline, it happened to hit me as 'fight' I believe rather than 'flight'. Anyway, I did feel empowered, but because I was proud of how I'd managed my particular situation, if you see what I mean? it's ridiculous to equate not having pain relief with that feeling of pride though - it's just a fact that labour is more painful with back to back babies, and with inductions, and if you've been in it for 36 hours (god love you) you're probably going to be exhausted and terrified,so if you want or need pain relief by all means you should have it. It's a totally personal decision and I'd never judge anyone for what pain relief they take, and I'd take a dim view of anyone who would.

In my own situation, I did my research before birth, I studied up on positions, I had different birth preferences for different scenarios, I even made a fecking collage... and then when the sodding midwives didn't appear after 4 hours despite us calling them and calling them (planned homebirth) and I started feeling pushy in the bath with just DH there, and then had to navigate a hair raising car journey to the hospital with me being convinced I'd give birth on the backseat... none of this I could have planned. I did my best in a situation where I was scared shitless. I tried to stay calm, I tried to remember my breathing etc - I'm proud of that, and I think every single woman who's given birth should be bloody proud, because it is an intense experience however it goes, 'easy' or not.

I tell people who ask how it was for me the truth, which is that it was terrifying but fecking amazing, but I always emphasize I was lucky in that 1) I was low risk so didn't need a very medicalised delivery 2) I had a normal size baby 3) who was in a good position, and that's why it wasn't that painful and I felt elated afterward. I always always say though that it's different for everyone and that if you've gone through labour and brought your baby into this world you should be proud of yourself - unplanned c section, back to back, however it goes - you went through it, you did your best, you brought your lovely baby into the world.

While I think the lady who posted on facebook should be proud of birthing her baby, her pride in doing it 'naturally' rather than just doing it is what's U IMO.

[Moralitym1n1]

Competitive birthing - just fk off.

[doIreallyneedto]

@PCohle - Personally, yes.

So it sounds like you have an issue with any description of birth being posted?

I also have a relative who suffered a still birth and saying "everything that could go wrong did go wrong" when the birth ended in a healthy mother and baby is something she would have found pretty insensitive.

Unless it was directly sent to her, she would have been a bit overly sensitive. Most people recognise that the phrase is generally not to be interpreted literally. I went into my first labour knowing my baby was already dead. If I heard someone using that phrase, I would assume it was not meant to be taken literally and only meant that lots of things went wrong.

[Delatron]

I think the bottom line is any birth story gloaty or traumatic is best kept off social media and best kept for close friends if they want to hear it.

So going back to the original OP then she was BU to spout a load of crap about being a lioness. By the same measure if someone posted an horrific, traumatic birth story on Facebook then that would be unreasonable too.

[Strokethefurrywall]

I had a straightforward 6 hour labour with my first with some co-codomol and a bit of gas and air, and I felt like I could have wrestled a tiger afterward - I was shaking with adrenaline, it happened to hit me as 'fight' I believe rather than 'flight'. Anyway, I did feel empowered, but because I was proud of how I'd managed my particular situation, if you see what I mean?

I had the same experience - 4 hour hypnobirth, was so high on endorphins afterwards that I felt I could eat nails. I wish they could bottle that shit, it's incredible stuff.
I was fucking lucky that I had a baby in the optimum birthing position, dilated quickly and had an excellent and supportive OBGYN.

Second labor I had an epidural from 4cms - did I feel more proud of my first labor over my second? Absolutely NOT. Neither of my labors was superior over the other, they were both amazing experiences that I treasure.

[lordofthefries]

EMCS here, I don’t feel inferior at all because I got my baby born safely and that’s all that matters

[PCohle]

I don't think I'm over-sensitive (none of the issues I've mentioned apply to me particularly), I just try to be conscious of other people's feelings.

Maybe I am being overly sensitive with regards to the feelings of my relative who suffered an awful loss, but I'd prefer to have too much regard for her feelings than too little.

I've got no problem at all with sharing birth experiences with people who want to hear it - so if asked/on parenting sites etc.

[chuttypicks]

I had a failed induction (allergic to the pessary they use), all the pain relief they would allow, had to have my waters broken and still ended up with an emergency c section and a beautiful perfectly healthy baby. I went in to the whole thing with no preconceived ideas and just wanted my baby to be born healthy. I'm no less a woman or a mother for it. If people want to make martyrs of themselves by going without pain relief then they're welcome to, but given the situation over again, I'd still take all the pain relief they could give me. Each to their own I suppose but neither my baby or myself are any the worse for the experience.

[doIreallyneedto]

@chuttypicks - If people want to make martyrs of themselves by going without pain relief then they're welcome to

If someone said "if people are such complete wimps that they can't even manage to learn how to deal with labour themselves, then they're welcome to", you would, more than likely think they were rude and offensive. Why then do you think it is OK for you to say that about women who prefer not to take drugs during labour?

[doIreallyneedto]

@PCohle - I just try to be conscious of other people's feelings.

As do I. But I also tend to assume that most people don't mean any harm unless there is evidence to the contrary. Some of the things said to me when we lost our first child could most definitely have been classed as insensitive but it was mainly people not really knowing what to say and making a ham-fisted attempt at consolation. I always tried to look beyond the words and read the intent.

I do think that if people are taking general posts on SM that are relating to the poster's life as a personal affront and seeing them as offensive to them, they should consider taking a break from SM.

[BertrandRussell]

“If people want to make martyrs of themselves by going without pain relief then they're welcome to“

Right. Explain to me why It is OK to say that.

[PCohle]

I don't think a comment has to be intentional to cause hurt.

Nor do I think in either of the examples I've given the individuals in question would regard the status in question as "a personal affront". Just something that they would rather not have come across.

Staying off social media these days is easier said that done - my kids school use them a lot etc and it's a nice way to keep in contact with friends. Personally, I don't really see why sharing the details of your birth experience with your entire friend list is so important that it's worth causing upset or causing your friends to choose to opt out of social media, but then I'm not very big on sharing on SM in general.

[doIreallyneedto]

@PCohle - you've been very quick to criticise comments that you perceive might be offensive or hurtful to those who have used medication during their deliveries. Yet, there have been a number of comments similar to the one from @chuttypicks: “If people want to make martyrs of themselves by going without pain relief then they're welcome to“

Comments like that could certainly be offensive or hurtful to someone who has had medication free births. How come you're not critical of these types of comments?

[PCohle]

By the time I saw it other posters, like yourself, had jumped all over it. I'm not a big fan of unnecessary pile ons.

I certainly don't think women choosing not to use pain relief are martyrs, there are plenty of perfectly valid reasons for not wanting various forms of pain relief. As I've said, my first delivery was a fairly "natural" birth (I tried gas and air initially but disliked it).

I didn't realise you were waiting with baited breath for my thoughts on every post on the thread ...

[doIreallyneedto]

@PCohle -By the time I saw it other posters, like yourself, had jumped all over it. I'm not a big fan of unnecessary pile ons.

Really? Many of those types of posts had no comments about them and were called out by nobody. There were many posts about martyrs or we're not living in the 19 century, or asking would we have surgery without drugs etc. I, and others, have only called out a few of them.

And I certainly don't think asking a poster why they think it is OK to make a derogatory comment about others' choices is "jumping all over it"

[TowerRavenSeven]

Lioness is so cringeworthy. I had the sense to know that I needed meds and when they weren’t working that I needed more! When ds was about 6 months I had a midwife ask me if I had ds natural. I gave her the McDonalds look (eyes glazed over) and told her yeah he was natural he came out of me. Shut her up very quickly.

[PCohle]

I think posts criticising women for having intervention free births are also unnecessary and potentially hurtful. You and other posters seem to being to fine job making that point without my assistance.

In real life I see far far fewer of those sort of posts than I do comments that thoughtlessly imply a "natural" delivery is superior. Which is after all why the OP started the thread.

[PCohle]

*be doing

[doIreallyneedto]

@PCohle - You and other posters seem to being to fine job making that point without my assistance.

But despite having pretty much full agreement by every one on this thread that negative comments about women who use meds during birth are unacceptable, you feel that you should assist them in making that point?

Pretty selective on your support.

[PCohle]

I really don't know how I could make my views any clearer than I already have. "I think posts criticising women for having intervention free births are also unnecessary and potentially hurtful."

I'm terribly sorry that in this thread, the OP of which asks; "Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't" that this is the issue I have chosen to focus on. I'm also sorry that you are unhappy with the posts on this thread that I have chosen to respond to. I didn't realise that you felt you needed my support so much.

[doIreallyneedto]

@PCohle - I'm terribly sorry that in this thread, the OP of which asks; "Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't" that this is the issue I have chosen to focus on.

Actually no, that isn't what you have chosen to focus on. What you have focused on is twisting the words of people who have spoken about the benefits of a drug-free birth and tried to make their comments out to be critical of those who follow a different path.

I'm also sorry that you are unhappy with the posts on this thread that I have chosen to respond to. I didn't realise that you felt you needed my support so much.

You are being completely disingenuous now.

[PCohle]

I think many of the comments made by people about the benefits of drug free birth are impliedly critical of women who have interventions, yes. The example given is the OP is one.

As we've argued about at some length now I don't think it's "twisting" anything to look at the clear implications of someone's words.

As I've said several times, I also think that criticising women for having a natural birth is unacceptable. I'm sorry you somehow think I haven't made that point often enough or in relation to the posts to you think I should have.

I'm also sorry that you think my apology was disingenuous. You seem very determined to disagree with me.

[Myheartbelongsto]

I'm more proud of the fact that I had my second baby 10 months after my first.