All natural birth?

[TerribleTwosPhase]

Ok first time posting on AIBU so putting my hard hat on for this one...
Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't?
Before I had DD I was quite relaxed about my birth plan, didn't want any pain relief or anything if I could manage it, but wasn't against it. In the end after 3 days of labour with a back to back baby and not progressing I had to have an epidural. Fine that's what needed to happen to safely deliver my baby, and as my body was starting to have issues it was the safest way of processing for us both if I needed an emergency c section. I have no issues with this and understand it's just what had to happen, not my ideal birth but we are both happy and healthy so that's all that matters.
Woman on my Facebook has just announced her babies birth with the line " total natural birth, I am a lioness!"
AIBU to think that this is a bit ridiculous, be proud of yourself fair enough, but do we really need to make people feel bad about how they gave birth? Do you secretly feel better about yourself knowing you done it with no pain relief?
I'm really not trying to be goady here please don't take it like that, but does the fact that everything went textbook for someone mean it's more noteworthy than for someone who didn't? I see so many women on here who are disappointed with their birth experiences and I think things like this surely can't help?

@PCohle - Why would I be looking to be offended?

I have no idea why, but you are claiming posts are stating things that are not being stated, and then announcing that they are offensive. Your re-statements would most definitely have been offensive but the only one to make those statements was you.

"Of course luck plays a part. And genetics. But also deciding to try. Learning about breathing and relaxation."

"Most births are reasonably straight forward and pain relief or not is a choice."

“Yes I'm sure lots of women could have avoided epidurals if they'd only bothered to "learn about breathing and relaxation^ " "A lot could-^ if they had wanted to"

I'm not misquoting you, restating your words or desperately seeking to find offence. Airily saying that of course you didn't mean anything offensive doesn't mean that your views are't unpleasant and ill informed.

I had two emergency c sections . I was told by a "friend" that I hadn't really given birth because it wasn't natural. 😳🙄

"Of course luck plays a part. And genetics. But also deciding to try. Learning about breathing and relaxation."

If you don't know how to use breathing and relaxation, both proven techniques in pain management, then you are not going to be able to use them to help you manage your birth. Simple fact. This is not stating that doing so will ensure a natural birth or that deciding to take a different approach its somehow lesser or wrong.

"Most births are reasonably straight forward and pain relief or not is a choice."

Most births are reasonably straightforward. Pain relief is a choice. You will not be given drugs without your permission in a straightforward birth. Obviously an emergency is different. There is nothing wrong with choosing medication for pain relief. Equally, there is nothing wrong with choosing to try breathing and relaxation first to see does it help you.

Yes I'm sure lots of women could have avoided epidurals if they'd only bothered to "learn about breathing and relaxation" "A lot could- if they had wanted to

The first part of that quote (in italics) is your statement, the second is from @BertrandRussell Your statement is offensive in the way it is worded. I do agree with you that Bertrand's statement, in this instance, could be taken as offensive. However, this is the only one where I agree with you.

I'm not misquoting you, restating your words or desperately seeking to find offence. Airily saying that of course you didn't mean anything offensive doesn't mean that your views are't unpleasant and ill informed.

None of the statements you have misquoted in this post came from me. You have repeatedly misquoted or twisted posts to make them out to be offensive.

I had two emergency c sections . I was told by a "friend" that I hadn't really given birth because it wasn't natural

I hope your "friend" had a good explanation for where your children came from ... last I checked someone has to give birth to a child for them to get here ;-)

I hope you poked your friend in the eye and told her not to be so stupid!

@paw1977 - I had two emergency c sections . I was told by a "friend" that I hadn't really given birth because it wasn't natural.

Really? What a nasty "friend". Recovery from an emergency CS is often much longer and more difficult than a vaginal delivery. If anything, I would be full of admiration for you (presumably) managing with a newborn after that.

It isn't "twisting someone's words" to call out the clear implication of what they have said or to give an example of what their views mean in practice in the real word for real women.

"Deciding to try" - so women who use pain relief are not trying or should have tried harder?

"Learning about breathing" - Do you think it is helpful or supportive to tell a woman who has an epidural after days of agonising induction that she should instead of utilised breathing techniques and relaxed?

As you've acknowledged in relation to the last quotation, it's quite clear Bertrand understands what she is implying with her statements and is perfectly comfortable with it.

@doIreallyneedto , thank you. Yes, she's no longer a friend now . Also with my 2nd I was looking after a newborn and 17 month old, and it took me 13 weeks for me to completely heal.

My "friend" also criticised me not breast feeding my second , he was premature and couldn't latch on, and just generally struggled , but also i had to look after a 17 month old, alone when my husband went back to work . It was the hardest time in my life , and this is when I decided to cut her out.

I couldn't care less whether people give with birth with pain relief or not. Main thing is everyone is happy and healthy .

I had three "natural" births due to the sheer speed of them. I certainely don't think I'm superior and think anyone who does is a complete dick. It's literally completely uncontrollable how your body will birth and if you do get fast, easy labours like I did it's a fluke. It certianely wasn't anything I done.

@3timeslucky she had a very black and white view of what is wrong and right, and felt the need to tell me frequently I wasn't parenting right because I chose to do things differently to her . It really got me down and I developed PND and anxiety .

It also opened my eyes , and realised she really wasn't a friend , and i distanced myself from her .

“"Of course luck plays a part. And genetics. But also deciding to try. Learning about breathing and relaxation."

Yes, I said this. And it’s true. If you want to have a drug free birth and decide to give it a try then you have a better chance of achieving it if you have learned about breathing and relaxation.

"Most births are reasonably straight forward and pain relief or not is a choice."

I said this. It’s true. Most births are reasonably straightforward and whether or not to go for pain relief is a choice.

“Yes I'm sure lots of women could have avoided epidurals if they'd only bothered to "learn about breathing and relaxation hmm^
I didn’t say this-you did.

"A lot could- if they had wanted to"^ I did say this. It’s true. Women who make the perfectly legitimate choice to go for an epidural early on -like many women on here- could, if they had wanted to, made a different choice. Not a better or worse choice. A different one.

I wanted, if possible, an intervention and drug free birth. A combination of luck, genetics and the choices I made allowed me to have them. Not better or worse than anyone else’s. Just what I wanted. And I think it’s important for women to realise that if it’s what they want it’s something that might work for them too. On the day they might change their mind, or something might happen medically that makes it impossible. But there is nothing wrong with aiming for it, if that’s what you want.

PCohle -

"Deciding to try" - so women who use pain relief are not trying or should have tried harder?

Again, nobody except you said or implied that. For most people, the only way they will achieve something they want is if they decide to try. If I want to learn how to play a musical instrument. I need to want to do it. I need to spend time understanding the best way to learn. If you have no interest in playing a musical instrument, you will not try at all. Trying doesn't mean I will succeed. I may be inherently unmusical. My fingers may not be long enough to span the stings etc etc. Unless I try, I won't know.

"Learning about breathing" - Do you think it is helpful or supportive to tell a woman who has an epidural after days of agonising induction that she should instead of utilised breathing techniques and relaxed?

Again, you are twisting things. Nobody is saying that a woman having a difficult labour/induction should just use breathing/relaxation techniques. However, if the woman wants to have a natural birth, it makes sense to use breathing/relaxation up to the point where it isn't working any longer.

A woman needs to make the choices that work for her and her circumstances. Whether it be drugs as soon as possible, breathing and relaxation as long as possible or something in between, only the woman, in conjunction with medical advice, can make that decision. Regardless of what approach the woman wants, understanding what is possible, whether using drugs or natural approaches, understanding that birth will not always go to plan, being willing to adapt and change plans depending on the circumstances, means a woman is more likely to have a birth experience she is happy with.

As you've acknowledged in relation to the last quotation, it's quite clear Bertrand understands what she is implying with her statements and is perfectly comfortable with it.

Again, you are misquoting me. I said I could see how it could be interpreted as offensive. She may be aware of that or equally, she may be frustrated with you twisting things to suit your agenda and phrased it inappropriately in frustration.

@paw1977 - that sounds really difficult. I hope you and your dc are all thriving now.

It isn't "twisting" anything to read between the lines of what someone has said. Hiding behind "ooh but I didn't technically say that" when you are espousing views that are unkind and ill informed is disingenuous dog-whistling.

“said I could see how it could be interpreted as offensive. She may be aware of that or equally, she may be frustrated with you twisting things to suit your agenda and phrased it inappropriately in frustration.”
I have expanded in my most recent post.

“It isn't "twisting" anything to read between the lines of what someone has said.”

Yes it fucking well is! Particularly when your “reading between the lines” is a complete work of fiction and bears absolutely no relation to what I have said or what I think.

@doIreallyneedto we are thriving and happy. Which is the most important thing .

“"Learning about breathing" - Do you think it is helpful or supportive to tell a woman who has an epidural after days of agonising induction that she should instead of utilised breathing techniques and relaxed? ”

I missed this particular piece of bollocks. Frankly, if you can read that from what I have written your comprehension skills are so shot that there isn’t much point in responding any more.

Of course it is. Some people are very careful with what they say and it’s infuriating when your words are wilfully twisted to suit someone else’s narrative.

@paw1977 - we are thriving and happy. Which is the most important thing

That's great. Yes, it is the most important thing 😁

@PCohle - It isn't "twisting" anything to read between the lines of what someone has said. Hiding behind "ooh but I didn't technically say that" when you are espousing views that are unkind and ill informed is disingenuous dog-whistling.

Nobody is saying "I technically didn't say that". What is being said is "I categorically didn't say that". The only way most of the original points you have twisted could be interpreted as unkind or ill-informed is if they are twisted beyond all recognition in the way you are doing.

I completely agree with @Bertrand Russell above - Frankly, if you can read that from what I have written your comprehension skills are so shot that there isn’t much point in responding any more.

Tbh, those insisting that making reference to choices is offensive are shooting themselves in the foot. Because by making the assumption that all women tried to go for drug free but didn't for whatever reason, you are espousing drug free as the pinnacle we all aim for? I thought your entire point was that pain relief was a valid choice in and of itself?

If we can accept that some people choose to attempt drug free and some people choose pain relief then we accept they are both equal.

Ok, I'm perfectly happy if you don't wish to respond any further. I think your statements last night, and your attempts at defending them today, make your views perfectly plain.

Crikey PCohle what on Earth is going on for you? You’re doing something very strange - projecting maybe, and finding offence at things that haven’t even been said!

No idea why you think I'm projecting, I was very happy with all three of my birth experiences.

I'm certainly not alone on this thread in thinking that women's birth experience is down to chance/luck and not due to women not trying or failing to prepare properly. Personally I think that claiming otherwise is fairly disparaging. Sorry if you think that's "very strange".