All natural birth?

[TerribleTwosPhase]

Ok first time posting on AIBU so putting my hard hat on for this one...
Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't?
Before I had DD I was quite relaxed about my birth plan, didn't want any pain relief or anything if I could manage it, but wasn't against it. In the end after 3 days of labour with a back to back baby and not progressing I had to have an epidural. Fine that's what needed to happen to safely deliver my baby, and as my body was starting to have issues it was the safest way of processing for us both if I needed an emergency c section. I have no issues with this and understand it's just what had to happen, not my ideal birth but we are both happy and healthy so that's all that matters.
Woman on my Facebook has just announced her babies birth with the line " total natural birth, I am a lioness!"
AIBU to think that this is a bit ridiculous, be proud of yourself fair enough, but do we really need to make people feel bad about how they gave birth? Do you secretly feel better about yourself knowing you done it with no pain relief?
I'm really not trying to be goady here please don't take it like that, but does the fact that everything went textbook for someone mean it's more noteworthy than for someone who didn't? I see so many women on here who are disappointed with their birth experiences and I think things like this surely can't help?

I opted for a c-section and I don't feel like I took the easy route at all. I had a horrible pregnancy, I went from being very fit and healthy (did yoga daily) to not being able to walk from pelvic pain. It wasn't the pregnancy I imagined at all, I was in pain every day nonstop and extremely low.

I was told we were having a very large baby throughout the pregnancy, 99th percentile and they wanted to induce me. I'd known lots of women with terrible induction experiences so instead I pushed for a c section.

For me pregnancy was marked by so much pain that I don't feel I took an easy route... I would of course have preferred a natural birth but at the time I didn't feel mentally or physically this would be right for me.

I agree with PP that it should be okay to celebrate how amazingly women have coped with the birth experience and it shouldn't be a one up manship on who has the most traumatic story..... BUT you never know what other people have gone through so it's insensitive to somehow imply other are inferior.

“BUT you never know what other people have gone through so it's insensitive to somehow imply other are inferior.”
Not only insensitive but wrong. Any suggestions about how to avoid doing that?

I had an EMCS in January 5 weeks early for my first baby. I feel like I was robbed of the opportunity to give birth naturally and have struggled to accept it. I don't really feel like I have birth to my son. And people who harp on about all natural births just make me feel worse. But at the end of the day he was delivered safely and is a very healthy 11 week old now so I try not to dwell on the circumstances of his arrival.

Just caught up on the full thread, and I think I’ve just come across my favourite comment on MN ever

Also, a lioness is a SHIT thing to be. They do all the work, and the ‘pick me’ dance for their useless, arrogant, cocklodger DP. Who’d want to be like that!

Truth!! I’ll never be able to watch The Lion King the same way again now that Mufasa is no longer this majestic, regal creature.....just the pride’s resident cocklodger who just wants to get his leg over

I personally think it's very strange to comment about your birth on social media or send a huge message to an NCT WhatsApp saying how you delivered with gas and air. I'm always very conscious that people on my FB might have lost babies, might be trying etc and I try to be sensitive to that.

I would discuss my birth experience with another mum/expecting mum if I knew her well, but I would re-enforce this was my personal experience. My mum only had gas and air with me - she always described it as a "dream birth" - I grew up thinking this was normal but it's been far from the reality for me or my sister.

Stop it, @IntoValhalla - you’re making me blush!

Fenella it made me chuckle out loud

@IntoValhalla There’s a thread running at the moment about favourite MN comments and some of them are AMAZING - I cannot compete! You should give it a read though because it’s hilarious.

I had two medicalised induced births followed by an unmedicated home birth. I felt invincible after them all but I definitely felt more in control and heard with the last one. I don't judge anyone on their birth but believe everyone has the right to celebrate their birth and be their own biggest cheerleader.

I was adamant my child would come into the world drug free. I had nothing - not even gas and air. It was a horrendous labour largely because I was being an idiot 26 hours and ended up with a high cavity forceps delivery. Awful experience .

Second time around I wanted every drug going. As it happened, I had a 20 minute labour and didn't even get my knickers off, never mind get any drugs (my waters had gone so I'd gone into hospital as advised). I was offered gas and air for stitches, but one puff made me nauseous - think the adrenalin was rushing by then.

So two labours, no drugs. Do i get a medal? In truth, I am responsible for making my first labour very difficult, and probably endangered DC's life, as well as scaring the bejeesus out of XH. I advise anyone who asks to wait and see - yes, make a plan, but be open to change.

@FenellaMaxwell - no, it’s not what you are implying, it’s what you straight out said. You need to review your own posts before you start trying to backtrack.

This is what I wrote in my post:
While there is certainly an element of luck involved, most women who have positive natural birth experiences have put in a fair amount of effort too. They have spent time learning how to breathe effectively, learning about the best positions to labour in, etc.

I also say that the same applies to women who have definitely decided to use drugs. Preparing in advance by knowing what drugs are available and what will suit best helps them to achieve the birth experience they want.

Please point out exactly where I say that all women who learn about how to breathe and learn about the best positions go on to have the labour they want? Please point out where I state that if only they had tried harder they would have succeeded?

As I have repeatedly said, having this knowledge allows women to take advantage of birth circumstances that facilitate a natural birth. If those circumstances do not exist, then obviously no amount of preparation will achieve a natural birth. I have in no way made a judgement on anyone. In the exact same way, if your labour goes really quickly and you get to the hospital late in the process, no amount of advance preparation will allow you to have the epidural you might want.

I advise anyone who asks to wait and see - yes, make a plan, but be open to change

If there is one take away from this thread, let it be this.

@le42 I opted for a c-section and I don't feel like I took the easy route at all.

You chose the best way for you given your circumstances. That is what most women do, and then hope that circumstances allow them to do it.

@corythatwas - I knew about the kneeling too, but having spent several weeks in bed by the time I got to give birth wasn't strong enough to do it

If that was something you wanted to do, then it's unfortunate that your circumstances didn't allow you to. if so, I hope you were able to find alternative positions that worked for you.

If it's not something you wanted to do, then it wasn't an issue.

@BertrandRussell
I advise anyone who asks to wait and see - yes, make a plan, but be open to change

If there is one take away from this thread, let it be this.

Absolutely. While you can prepare and learn in advance, it's really important to realise that everything doesn't always go to plan and you may need to change in mid flow.

I advise anyone who asks to wait and see - yes, make a plan, but be open to change

Totally agree with this too.
With my first re: pain relief, my plan was to start at the bottom and work my way up if I needed it - after all, it was my first rodeo! I had no idea what the pain would be like, or how I would cope with it. As it goes, I started with gas and air, it made me horrifically sick and I decided I didn’t want it or anything else that might make me feel out of control.
I’m expecting DC3, and while my ideal plan would be another drug-free, natural, home birth, the fact of the matter is, my placenta is currently in a awkward-as-arse position, blocking the exit as it were, so I may end up needed to go down the medical route of an elective csection. While that would never be first choice because I’m terrified of it, choice may be removed from the equation this time around - my baby needs to come out. And as it stands at the moment, it cannot come out vaginally without killing us both, thanks to this pesky placenta

I’ve given birth twice.

My first was a 30 hour labour in which I had pethidine, an epidural and ended in a forceps delivery after 2 hours of pushing and resulted in a huge post partum haemorrhage which nearly killed me.

2nd delivery took 1.5 hours. I had gas and air (no time for anything else!) and ds2 came out in 2 pushes.

I feel much more proud of myself for getting through ds1’s birth. It was much more of an ordeal. I barely felt like I’d given birth to ds2 it was so easy.

I’ve birthed four babies, all completely differently. First was a very long, very slow labour resulting in an epidural. Second was all natural. Third was an advised section for medical issues with my placenta. I can honestly say they all had their highs and lows. First was very long and painful and chemically induced so felt unnatural and a bit distressing at times, but it was all straightforward and the birth itself was quite calm. Second felt a lot more calm throughout and like my body was in control. Recovery for the all natural was best definitely. But my section was ace, I was really panicky about surgery but it was all very civilised and I was lucky in that my recovery was very quick - walking around quite normally after 9 hours (nerve damage, couldn’t feel anything... when the feeling came back three weeks later I was quite healed 😂)

I will say though that the all natural birth has been the most challenging child 😂 She’s a feisty one, could be second child syndrome. Other two have been quite easy comparatively.

Wait and see- Yes, make a plan but be open to change

I agree that this is the best possible advice, but for the hospital I have given birth in, it's not realistic (despite the midwives nodding along at appointments and saying it's a good mindset to have).
You can't play it by ear and then ask for an epidural for example because you might be too dilated for it at that point- and they won't admit you until you're in active labour. Dilation can happen very quickly in active labour and the anaesthetist needs to have been called, and then actually available beforehand. Once you are on track for a certain type of delivery, you really have to advocate for yourself- hard if you want to try something different.
The 'keeping an open mind' very much refers to you as the birthing woman adapting, not choosing a another path whether that be changing position, trying pain relief, taking a bath, ect.
I'm sorry to be negative but I'd set myself up for a fall from my first baby, believing that I had options which actually, weren't available in the event.
So my advice is: 'if you think you will need a certain type of pain relief, insist on it from as early as possible and then if you're getting by ok without it, you don't have to have it. And have yourself and your birth partner prepared to have to make your voices heard'.

Having had my son with shoulder dystocia and no pain relief (not available in German MLUs) I can compare with my daughter (my first) who was born after epidural at 10 cm in hospital.

I remember a high as if I was on top of the world, like a lioness really, after I had my son. As if someone had given me XTC or something 😂. No joke.

Maybe that Facebook post was done during that hormone rush?

Do you secretly feel better about yourself knowing you done it with no pain relief?

Yes but the key is the word secretly I would never admit that in real life. In fact I would never even think it only for my first birth was a horrendous experience - lot of drugs - lot of intervention and I was traumatized by the whole thing. So I only felt better about myself the second time round as it went smoothly, I felt in control and not violated etc. it’s not that I feel better than anyone who didn’t do it drugfree (since I was that person first time round!) it’s that I feel better about the experience itself.

That woman was very insensitive to post that on FB but most people who post such things tend to be idiots and should be ignored. Sorry you had a tough birth OP

“Yes but the key is the word secretly I would never admit that in real life. ”

But such a shame you feel you can’t. Surely knowing that you can have a horrendous experience but then a not horrendous one is incredibly useful for for other women to know?

It’s like breastfeeding threads on here. I would perfectly understand why women would decide not to even try bf if they read about it on Mumsnet. Anyone who tries to suggest that it is possible for bf to go well and be a positive experience is instantly drowned out by accusations of being goady or smug or insensitive, and threads fill up with horror stories. Of course it’s important to be realistic , but surely realism should include the positive as well as the negative? .

I had one with zero interventions and zero pain relief and one with every intervention possible bar a c-section. I didn't work harder or prepare better, I don't consider one superior to the other, it's just the luck of the draw. I don't ever judge other mothers for how they've given birth, either, partly because I don't care enough, and partly because it's just another shitty way for women to attack other women.

Anyone who thinks one birth can possibly be superior to another is an arse. Birth is birth, it's something you can't really control or design, it's something you can chuck all the money, prep, yoga and expertise in the world at and still end up in difficulty. You can take care of your body, take care of your pregnancy and still not have the birth you hoped for.

I agree that just waiting to see if you want an epidural isn't actually all that practical in most labour units as they're run in the UK. No one I know in the UK had an epidural 'just' because they wanted one - the only women I know who were offered them/told it was available (even when they asked) it was either because the doctors thought a C-section was imminent or because of a pretty poorly progressing induction. I didn't ask for an epidural, but since they didn't actually believe I was in labour and admit me to labour ward until I was pushing I couldn't have had one if I did - I did ask for morphine and was told there was no time. So just like you don't always get a choice to give birth 'intervention free', nor is it always a choice to do it without an epidural (I did get gas and air, because that's the one they can give you instantly)

"Only negative birth stories allowed."

No one has said anything of the sort Bertrand. But when asked what you think is responsible for some women requiring medical intervention if not bad luck your response was "Of course luck plays a part. And genetics. But also deciding to try. Learning about breathing and relaxation. No harm in going straight for the epidural. But no harm in not, either." and "Most births are reasonably straight forward and pain relief or not is a choice."

Those sort of views I think are ignorant, offensive to many and frankly best kept to yourself. Nothing to do with your birth story.