All natural birth?

[TerribleTwosPhase]

Ok first time posting on AIBU so putting my hard hat on for this one...
Do you genuinely believe that having a baby with no pain relief/intervention or anything makes it a superior birth to someone who hasn't?
Before I had DD I was quite relaxed about my birth plan, didn't want any pain relief or anything if I could manage it, but wasn't against it. In the end after 3 days of labour with a back to back baby and not progressing I had to have an epidural. Fine that's what needed to happen to safely deliver my baby, and as my body was starting to have issues it was the safest way of processing for us both if I needed an emergency c section. I have no issues with this and understand it's just what had to happen, not my ideal birth but we are both happy and healthy so that's all that matters.
Woman on my Facebook has just announced her babies birth with the line " total natural birth, I am a lioness!"
AIBU to think that this is a bit ridiculous, be proud of yourself fair enough, but do we really need to make people feel bad about how they gave birth? Do you secretly feel better about yourself knowing you done it with no pain relief?
I'm really not trying to be goady here please don't take it like that, but does the fact that everything went textbook for someone mean it's more noteworthy than for someone who didn't? I see so many women on here who are disappointed with their birth experiences and I think things like this surely can't help?

Doing the preparation means that you can take advantage of the luck

Funny, I'd done all the reading up on the breathing and actually thought I was quite good at it, but it didn't seem to have much effect on my IUGR baby's heart rate during the early stages of labour.

If I had "soldiered on till the end" in my second labour I suppose my baby might well died. Nothing particularly heroic about that.
(Though come to think of it, one thing lionesses do do if they have a stressful time, is kill their baby)

Otoh my decision to push away the gas and air in my first labour was primarily because, like a pp, I found it made me queasy. Doesn't sound terribly heroic either.

I can only conclude that nature didn't have me cut out for a lioness.

Where do you stand on emergency c sections Bertrand?

I think women who can give birth naturally are lucky and usually baby is in the right position etc. I know friends who have opted fkr epidural and wish they didn't. I had paracetamol only (for non birth reasons) followed by an emergency section. I had researched breathing, relaxation. However my child's heartbeat was going far too quickly and then dropping. He would probably be dead without the c section. I had an awful recovery with an open wound for 5 months. I would not choose a section again. But when a childs life is at risk, I'm not the best person to make the choice. I leave it to the professionals.

@FenellaMaxwell - There you go - implying that people who don’t have natural births haven’t put the effort in

That is not what I am implying. Plenty of women who have natural births find them very traumatic. I said those who find them a positive experience are more likely to have prepared by learning how to use breathing etc.

There are plenty women who put in every bit of effort they possibly can and still don’t get the natural birth they’d planned for. It is not ok to imply those women didn’t try hard enough, or “put the effort in”.

I most definitely did not imply that. Their situation meant they did not have the element of luck that meant they were able to put their preparation into play.

You also neglected to notice that I said women who want drugs are more likely to have a positive experience if they also prepare by understanding their optons etc. Personally, I think preparation is key for any difficult task.

@Bearfrills - They can spend all the time learning as much as they want, they can do a degree is breathing and labour position if such a thing existed, they could spend fucking years preparing and not a single bit of it matters because all of it boils down to luck.

That is a ridiculous statement. If a woman has the luck to have a straightforward birth, then preparation can make it much easier to have a drug free delivery if that is what she wants, in the same way that preparation will allow a woman who wants drugs to choose the most appropriate approach for her delivery.

Knowing that pain is less intense if you are in an upright position, knowing how to breathe through the pain, all of that helps the woman, who has the luck to have a straightforward labour, to have a med free delivery if that is what she wants.

@Fannydango - screaming is actually a good way to manage pain. If you are screaming, you are relaxing your muscles and allowing your body to do its job.

@Backseatonthebus - of course it's not just down to preparation. However, if you have the luck to have a straightforward labour and you would prefer a natural birth, then taking the time to learn the tools that will facilitate that, makes sense.

I still use the breathing I learnt for labour if I am in a situation where I need to manage pain. I use it at the dentist when I'm having my teeth cleaned as I find that stressful or when the dentist is putting in the local for a filling.

I think some of us are just made differently and cope better/worse than other with childbirth, it’s just luck of the draw really, I know there are some external factors like the support you get and how relaxed you are but I think that only applies to a certain extent.

I discovered with my first baby that I have relatively short labours (first time was 3 hours) and I didn’t have anything except gas and air right at the end for the pushing stage. This was all accidental, I would’ve had all the drugs if I needed them or even just fancied them at the time I just sort of forgot and they didn’t offer me anything.

I’ve had 5 more since then and they’ve all been like that, so it’s just the way I’m made.

In my experience preparation had zero to do with my drug free, straight forward labour.
I had HG that lasted the whole pregnancy. I was utterly miserable. I didn't go to any ante natal classes or think much at all about the birth. I had no birth plan, didn't know anything about breathing and knew very little about pain relief. I just wanted the baby out so I could stop vomiting.

My first labour was around 4 hours. I had manageable contractions that were regular and close together from the beginning. I went to the hospital and midwife checked and said I was 2cm dilated.
I progressed very quickly to 10cm, was pushing for a matter of minutes and dd was born. No stitches required.
Just lucky in my opinion.

@Shinygoldbauble - I didn't say you can only have a positive natural birth if you have prepared. However, if you have learned how to do the breathing, if you have learned which are the best positions, then you are more likely to have a positive experience when trying for a natural birth, provided things go your way.

With ds1, I was labouring away quite happily while kneeling. The midwife wanted to check contractions using a band and got me into a semi-reclined position to do so. The pain increased dramatically. Because I knew position impacts pain levels, after she had checked the machine, I knew that the sensible thing to do was to go back to a kneeling position after which the pain decreased again. My preparation helped me to manage the increased pain and to revert to the best position for me. If I hadn't that knowledge, I might have thought that my pain was getting too difficult to manage.

doIreallyneedto, I knew about the kneeling too, but having spent several weeks in bed by the time I got to give birth wasn't strong enough to do it

also, we have a joint condition in my family which makes kneeling difficult, though I am not as badly affected as my DM, who has simply never been able to do it at all

I didn't want drugs/pain relief if it could be avoided

But why OP? Birth is painful, no two ways around it. I bet you don't "hope to avoid" pain relief for any other type of painful experience. If you examine the reasons it was so important to you personally, those are probably the same reason your friend has and why she feels so great about the outcome.

Now before I get 100s of hateful replies, I AM NOT questioning your choice - I think it's a great choice and support any women's plan of how she wants to birth, including home birthing.

But OP is questioning why women feel proud of natural birth, when she herself wanted a natural birth. Ask yourself OP!

Actually OP I think the answer is in Bertrand Russell's posts. Yes, some women (like her) who had an all natural birth do feel superior, because, as she posted up thread, she believes she worked harder, prepared better, is tougher and just generally has a better body and mind than other women who "failed" to do so. Luck doesn't come in to it.

Anyone who didn't is pretty pathetic in her opinion.

Not an opinion i have, that's for sure.

@doIreallyneedto no, it’s not what you are implying, it’s what you straight out said. You need to review your own posts before you start trying to backtrack.

Lol

Errr no! I had an emcs at 33+4 with PE. I had wanted a section (although would have offered term!!) so wasn’t at all unhappy with the mode of delivery. DD didn’t even have to go to special care as I’d had steroids st 27 and 28 weeks, she was just diddy. Also I had my baby on The Lindo wing which in itself was amazing.

Not sure what I’d have to envy in other people. I always feel very smug when the press harp on about the DOC/Princess Di having had all their babies there. It’s where I had mine too!!

Do you secretly feel better about yourself knowing you did it with no pain relief?

Nope. I feel like a complete idiot who is still feeling the consequences now (incontinence/prolapse).
It was the biggest mistake I ever made.
I still rue it now - and it's been nearly six years.
I had had two epidurals and ventouse births with my first two.
I believed all the stuff about epidurals having led to those interventions. I believed I had just not got through transition and had I waited just that bit longer I would have felt an urge to push and then been rewarded with endorphins.
Utter bollocks and I hate all women who have pedalled it. And I no longer give a fuck how unreasonable that might sound. Tell that to my broken fanjo you fuckers.

I have 3 DCs. I learned about breathing and positions and visualisation. For 2 of my labours, that was all fine and dandy, but one of them really, really fucking hurt, beyond what I felt I could cope with, and I had pain relief. If I was judging all birth experiences on my 2 pain relief free births, I might be a bit judgey about other women's choices, and feel a bit smug about how my preparedness had meant I could do it all naturally because I'm a bloody lioness. The reality is, I just got lucky, twice. Labours vary massively, some are worse than others, and the cult of celebrating natural birth over anything else seems pretty damaging to me. No-one knows how someone else's labour feels,or what choices they might make in their shoes. It's great to be prepared and informed, but I'm no less proud of the birth where in bad pain relief then I am of the others...in fact, I don't feel any particular sense of pride about any of my births, or shame, or disappointment, or anything else. I'm glad my babies were ok, and I am proud that I raised those babies, but how the labours went was just the luck of the draw and doesn't make me superior or inferior in some way.

I had a natural birth- not by choice- midwife was booking a holiday and refused to admit that I was in labour , 11lbs 4 ozs

20 years later have had to have 2 sets of prolapse surgery, body full of vaginal mesh and now need hysterectomy.

best avoided in my opinion.

Nope. I feel like a complete idiot who is still feeling the consequences now (incontinence/prolapse).

Yes should have added that, incontinence as well

I think some of us are just made differently and cope better/worse than other with childbirth, it’s just luck of the draw really, I know there are some external factors like the support you get and how relaxed you are but I think that only applies to a certain extent.

first baby 8 12 gas and air-lovely beanbag birth

2nd baby 11 4 - horrendous birth- no pain relief of any kind. Prolapse , incontinence, stitches

How relaxed I was?
How differently I was made?
How well I coped?

My midwifes painted such a bleak picture that I was convinced everything would go wrong, so I was fully prepared to have every drug going. In the end the reality was not bad at all, it was relatively quick and I kept waiting for it to get really bad (like my midwives had said!) before I requested pain relief, but it never went that far. In the end I had no pain relief and did not need stitches. I am well aware that I was very lucky, but yes, I do feel proud. (Although I would have been proud whatever happened)

Ha. Some people eh. She was lucky there were no complications, really.

Yes it's an "achievement" of sorts as it's fucking painful (two "natural" births with only gas and air as pain relief) and yes in a way I'm proud as they were both long in comparison to the norm and I pushed for a long time. But I'm under no illusion that it makes me superior to a mum who had a c section, EM or EL, or instrumental birth.

I haven't breastfed beyond 6ish weeks with either baby, whereas for some that's the utmost importance and they would go through hell to do it. But they wouldn't be superior to someone who chose not to, or who was unable to.

It's fine for people to be proud of their "achievements" but not to imply they are superior.

Hey strath
I sound somewhat ragey on my vent above.
''Overrated'' my politer self would say when she's not raging.
Hugs to you x
Best avoided indeed.

I don't understand 'having pride' in giving birth without pain relief. I think that is what makes others who need pain relief feel that they have failed in some way.

Would anyone feel proud of having a broken leg without pain relief, or surgery without pain relief? I doubt it!

People keep saying that no one is proud of having a broken leg or whatever with no pain relief - but has no one else ever heard people boast about enduring pain in any other context? I've heard people boast about how they walked around for days with a broken arm before someone else persuaded them to go to the doctor, about how they never take time off work and just go no matter how ill they feel, etc. I'm not saying it makes it better or right, but I don't think birth is the only area where people do competitive martyrdom or boast about how 'well' they endure pain.

The fact some posters have twisted Bertrand's words into something she didn't say just proves her original point. There does seem to be a distaste for women who are proud of themselves/happy with their experience and not ashamed of communicating it and they WILL be deliberately misunderstood, picked at and silenced.
Just let people be. To connect everything back to yourself is selfish.

“Actually OP I think the answer is in Bertrand Russell's posts. Yes, some women (like her) who had an all natural birth do feel superior, because, as she posted up thread, she believes she worked harder, prepared better, is tougher and just generally has a better body and mind than other women who "failed" to do so. Luck doesn't come in to it.

Anyone who didn't is pretty pathetic in her opinion.”

I said nothing of the bloody sort. But thank you for so eloquently proving my point. Only negative birth stories allowed.