To be furious that DS and friends have drawn on faces with sharpie at sleepover

[peoplepleaser1]

Yesterday was DS' 12th birthday. He had 6 friends sleep overnight.

They've been no trouble but I've got up this morning to find they've drawn on the faces of two sleeping friends with sharpie whilst they were asleep.

They have drawn moustaches, bushy eyebrows and cheek roses. I've tried to remove it with them but it's still quite visible. Both kids have quite pale skin which has made it even more visible.

I'm mortified, and upset and angry that DS let this happen under our roof. I was responsible for these kids and I feel terrible that they did this.

I've told DS to carry on as normal and that I'll deal with him once they've all gone home.

I'm not usually very strict and DS is usually a good kid but I'm really annoyed with him- well with all of them tbh but it's not my place to do anything about that.

DS is going to his dads tonight, we aren't together. I have mentioned it to him and he has said I'm ridiculous and overreacting. I planned to ban DS from electronics for a couple of days but his Dad has said he won't back me up so I can't do that.

AIBU and overreacting?!

*However, it was not as bad as secretly plying someone with drink, pushing them in to a lake, or daring them to jump off a building.

Perspective is a good thing to have*

This is absolutely true, it isn't crime of the century but by punishing her DS for this minor incident and using it as an opportunity to learn that some behaviour isn't acceptable you reduce the chance of something more serious happening in future.

But where do you draw the line, is it not just simpler to tell your children you should not do things that upset, humiliate or could harm your friends? Drawing on their face might not harm them (unless they are allergic to something or have very sensitive skin) but it has upset them.

Wow, some posters are right bastards, aren't they? Laughing and taking photos, calling them snowflakes - poor boys, it's NOT fucking funny!

If I was the parent of one of them, I'd be really cross and upset for my son and he wouldn't be coming back to your house again, OP - I wouldn't be blaming you, but I wouldn't trust that it would never happen again.

And yes, my son who is 11 1/2 would be upset, in tears, and wanting help to get it off please before anyone sees it. There is nothing, NOTHING wrong with not wanting to be humiliated, ffs!!
He's not a snowflake either, and he's used to having make up on when he dances; but he'd be really upset that a supposed bunch of friends thought this was a funny thing to do to him.

It's NOT assault, it's kids being kids (not 'boys being boys' because that's a totally MORONIC saying).

12 year olds think they're funny when they're not and just need to apologise if the ones that were drawn on are genuinely upset. They're probably only upset because their parents will be annoyed.

Teabagging is putting your balls in someone's mouth.. unless I've misunderstood, this is not the same as drawing on someone.

Another one with the OP here. It's not about the sharpie as such: it's about the fact that it was done on two sleeping boys to have a laugh at their expense and they were upset. You are right here: your son needs to learn that this is unacceptable because it is bullying. He has done one stupid thing: he needs not to be given a free pass, but to understand why it was stupid.

No, of course it's not the same as sexual assault. But as parents we can all help our young boys by teaching them to avoid being dragged into stupid things through peer pressure- because a few years down the line he will be at different parties and the peer pressure will be about more serious things. Accepting that he has to respect other people's dignity and that people who are not in a position to consent should be left out of any joking is a good start.

These boys are upset and feel humiliated - I'm failing to see what is funny here? Why don't the posters who think this is jolly japes draw all over their faces with sharpie, take a photo and then post it on here? We can all have a right good laugh with them can't we?

If these boys have to go to school on Monday like this a) they will be laughed at on a much wider scale and b) what if the school refuse them being there or put them in isolation?

OP I wouldn't be holding back if my child had done this. He has humiliated 2 of his friends. I would be giving him the telling off of his life, in front of his friends, victims and bullies alike, and give him a taste of what humiliation feels like.

I'm sick of "pranks" being mislabelled. Unless you know, with certainty, that the victim wants to join in then pranks are actually bullying. Their sole purpose is to humiliate someone for the amusement of others. What is funny about that?

I'm pretty laid back about stuff generally but I'd be angry about this. What if those children had somewhere to be tomorrow, like a family meal in a smart restaurant or a photo shoot somewhere?
Surely at 12 they are old enough to know better than that.

Surely at 12 they are old enough to know better than that

You overestimate the capabilities of 12 year olds to be sensible!

There were four of them against two sleeping!

I'd be going nuclear on the lot of them!

If it doesn't come off they'll have hell on Monday.

If they're upset then obviously it wasn't ok. However it is possible for everyone to find it amusing.

As said earlier, it was the 'punishment' for falling asleep first when I was at boy/girl mass sleepovers. Everyone, including me when I had it, found it amusing. Often when everyone was awake in the mornings the drawing would continue throughout breakfast. Your DS should apologise as they are upset and just confine it to those who would laugh.

It's the fact that they did it with a sharpie, knowing that it wouldn't automatically come off that makes this more than a prank - lipstick etc that would be washed off straightaway is a joke. This is a different level and I don't think you're over reacting.

Motherofdinosaur, who wrote 'CUNT' on her friends forehead when on holiday and told you to 'chill out' because it was 'fucking hilarous' - you are the reason MN invented the phrase I don't like, and never thought I'd use, but am now - give your head a wobble. If that's acceptable in your social circle, there's something wrong with you all.

Nail varnish remover, obviously, is made to be safe to go on skin. Better avoided but that's what I use, just a tiny bit, to get permanent marker off my hands (from work) - followed by washing well and moisturising.

I've also done this for DD when she's drawn on herself by accident and wanted it off before school.

I'd ask about sensitive skin and maybe check with parents over the phone.

If you want to remove permanent marker you need a solvent. I think careful use of a skin-safe solvent is probably better than excessive scrubbing, in terms of damage to skin.

I also think most people would prefer it to keeping the pen on their face.

At what age do we educate our children that they should not do anything to anyone when they are asleep?

Many a time I have seen on MN when someone has suggested waking up a reluctant teen or drunken DH by throwing water on them, that that is assault.

I am assuming if a parent had posted on here that their child, whilst at school, had been pinned down and drawn all over against their will, they would have been advised to take it up with school.

Why is it different when they are asleep?

Massive overreaction. Christ.

My generation not myself personally shaved off peoples eyebrows as teenagers whilst sleeping.
If it was my child who it had happened to I wouldn’t be upset, nothing a bit of hairspray won’t sort out. The hysterics on this thread are ridiculous.

I wouldn't want to be you OP when the parents come to pick they're poor DS's up.

Honestly I have 5DC,3 sons if one of them had done this to a friend whilst they were staying with us I would have hit the bloody roof.

You need to have a right go at your DS and I wouldn't wait until the other children had left I'd be having a go at all of them that did it(just because they're not your children doesn't mean you can't tell them off they're under your roof and your rules)and I'd be telling all of the parents who's children had drawn on the other 2 children what they'd done.

Your Son and all of the other children need to properly apologize to the 2 children and to the parents,the parents of the 2 children are now going to have to deal with all of this.

I would be annoyed and would definitely have words.

However I don’t think we should fall into the trap of assuming that a 12 year old will think about things the same way an adult would. You can’t expect 12 year olds to stop in that kind of situation and have the “consent / assault” thought process. It would be nice if they did but that’s just not how their minds work.

I’d be disappointed about the unkindness though.

Massive overreaction. Christ.

So 2 children being upset is an over reaction? If they have to go to school on Monday and face consequences there too - will they still be over reacting? Schools put kids into isolation for wearing the wrong shoes, I can't see them being happy to let these 2 walk around with fake moustaches and bushy eyebrows, can you?

At what point do things cease to be funny for you? If they'd shaved their eyebrows? Shaved their heads? Are they still funny too? At what point do pranks stop and bullying start?

You can’t expect 12 year olds to stop in that kind of situation

Yet the age of criminal responsibility is 10. So from 10 they are expected to know right from wrong.

2 children being upset means smooth the waters, solve the problem, get an apology, and move on with a nice breakfast, maybe extra treats for the drawn-on ones to hammer it home. If there's real bullying underlying it, deal with that, but it may well be that there's not.

Hitting the roof, extended punishments, cries of assault etc are the kind of thing that encourage a child to think something like this is a massive disaster and they're scarred for life. You can deal with it calmly and quickly without that meaning you're saying it's all fine.

2 children being upset means smooth the waters, solve the problem,

How? The 2 children feel what they feel. And how can you solve the problem? The OP has tried and the pen won't come off.

What is your solution? Tell the kids to keep their chins up and not worry about the stares as they go about school on Monday? Or maybe put a paper bad over their head?

Please tell us how you would "solve this"?

Can't believe all these people saying 12yos should know better. University students pull this kind of crap all the time and plenty of older people do much worse on stag dos etc.

It is very minor compared to a lot of things teens do. It's also not a crime, so the age of criminal responsibility is irrelevant.

If you expect every child to "know better" than to do anything wrong from the age of 12 onwards you are in for a shock!

Well I've explained what I would do in my posts. I'd be confident in my ability to get it off as I've removed permanent marker before. If I really, couldn't I'd give them concealer, but if it's the school holidays as it is here, that wouldn't be such an issue. Even if it's school on Monday, you have 2 days to get it off.

For those saying 12 year olds aren’t old enough to know better, what would your thoughts be if said 12yo was on a train and the stranger next to them was asleep, so they drew on their face with a Sharpie. Would that be ok?