To be furious that DS and friends have drawn on faces with sharpie at sleepover

[peoplepleaser1]

Yesterday was DS' 12th birthday. He had 6 friends sleep overnight.

They've been no trouble but I've got up this morning to find they've drawn on the faces of two sleeping friends with sharpie whilst they were asleep.

They have drawn moustaches, bushy eyebrows and cheek roses. I've tried to remove it with them but it's still quite visible. Both kids have quite pale skin which has made it even more visible.

I'm mortified, and upset and angry that DS let this happen under our roof. I was responsible for these kids and I feel terrible that they did this.

I've told DS to carry on as normal and that I'll deal with him once they've all gone home.

I'm not usually very strict and DS is usually a good kid but I'm really annoyed with him- well with all of them tbh but it's not my place to do anything about that.

DS is going to his dads tonight, we aren't together. I have mentioned it to him and he has said I'm ridiculous and overreacting. I planned to ban DS from electronics for a couple of days but his Dad has said he won't back me up so I can't do that.

AIBU and overreacting?!

BatteringLord

Consent is about context?

Wth? You know where that attitude leads don't you?

You don't touch someone else unless they have given consent, which can be withdrawn at anytime. That's it.

The only context I can think of where that doesn't apply is in an emergency situation.

How on earth do you teach consent to your kids?

cabcab

What is "it"? Is it like tag in the playground? Kids chase each other and if someone touches you you are then the chaser?

If so, yes they did. Because if you were playing then you had consented. Why is that impossible to understand? How do you not understand the concept of consent?

Someone who is asleep cannot consent to being touched can they?

Your attempt to excuse this and to disregard consent is bizarre.

They were naughty and thoughtless. You say it's not my place to do anything but I disagree. They did this while guests in your house and you should at least tell them that they've been stupid so that they don't repeat this behaviour. In the great scheme of things it's fairly minor though.

Seems as if you are victim blaming BatteringLord.

I too would like to know where people who think this is funny would draw a line. As far as I am concerned anything that upsets or humiliates someone is not funny. For some people it just seems to be a race to the bottom

@LittleChristmasMouse - you’re being very hysterical. I bet your kids are popular at school

Yes thanks they were. And they are as adults. You know why? Because they respect the boundaries of others. They understand about getting and giving consent. They understand being respectful to others and they understand about being good friends.

What they didn't do was humiliate anyone because it was "a laugh" or do something to anyone when they were unable to consent to it "because it was funny" .

I bet your kids are popular at school

Yes because that’s the most important thing.

I agree with you littlechristmasmouse.

Where a joke crosses the line depends on the reaction and responses of both parties. In this case, it did cross the line. If this had been something easy to get off like washable markers or make-up, I’d bet the “joke” would have been seen differently, but permanent marker left on for hours and not being able to get it off after different types of methods and then being forced to walk around with it is not.

I also don’t think posters saying that it is assault is being hysterical. There are varying levels of assault, physical and psychological.

www.lawtonslaw.co.uk/resources/varying-degrees-of-assault/

Prank or not, no consent was asked, it was done with permanent marker that was left on for hours and has been difficult to remove, the boys marked were upset (for obvious reasons), had to go out in public while marks are still on their face, one may have faced isolation in school today (if I read correctly) if marks are still there and had to put up with stares and comments at a football game. We also don’t know the personalities of these boys. If they were on the shy side and said boys that did this to them were their only friends, it could have damaged if not destroyed their trust in them then to add insult to injury more attention is being brought to them due to the marks.

OP is lucky that neither child was allergic to said markers and that the parents seemed to take it in stride, but doubt they are now if the marks are still easy to see four days later.

If so, yes they did. Because if you were playing then you had consented. Why is that impossible to understand? How do you not understand the concept of consent?

It's not impossible to understand and I'm. It stupid, so don't try to infer I am. Your batshit issues do not name you a better parent at all! Your user name says it alll....

*are

@phoenixrosehere but that's not what @LittleChristmasMouse is saying! It's not about how easy the marks were too remove, it's saying about the lack of consent and how the others were violated, blah blah! Nothing about which pens were used!

I was going to say that YWBU as I thought that all the boys had done this to each other whilst awake, but to pick on only 2 boys whilst they were asleep and therefore unable to consent, changes things (imo).

YANBU to be annoyed. I would be too, but then my dd was always being bullied (often subtly like this).
I would have a chat about why it's wrong and there would be consequences for this. His friends are upset. That in itself should tell him it was wrong.

It's so easy to see how the frat boy culture happens isn't it?

•t's so easy to see how the frat boy culture happens isn't it?* eh? Didn’t realise we were in the states, but even if we were those lads grow up to be leaders in business, the Media and politics so I don’t see why it’s a bad thing?

There is a middle ground between the 70s meathead “man up boys don’t cry” and the “life altering bullying humiliating end of the world” vibe though.

Yes it’s ok to be upset and it may feel like the worst thing ever to a 12 year old but don’t fuel it! You’re the adult. If you’ve got your own issues that you’re projecting then deal with them. It’s your job to help your child recover from adversity - not to be equally as dramatic as them.

The thing I’m picking up here is that some posters think that a child being upset is something unrecoverable. I think that’s really unhealthy and probably explains why so many kids have anxiety now-because they think they can’t cope.

It’s a bit like when a toddler falls over and you react-and then they cry because you reacted.

cabcab

Regardless of what was used there is no difference in that the boys didn't consent.

That issue remains regardless.

However, had the boys used make up or removable pens and the drawn on boys had laughed and not been upset and no on going issues then had I been the OP I would still have had a long conversation with my son about the importance of consent and that it should not be presumed.

In that case though there wouldn't have been the added issues of the boys upset, practical issues etc.

The lack of consent would still have been an issue to talk about though.

There are degrees aren't there? A child in class who keeps poking their neighbour is likely to be told to keep their hands to themselves (consent) but clearly is not the same as touching someone when they are asleep.

But all children growing up need to know about when you can and can't touch someone else.

Didn’t realise we were in the states, but even if we were those lads grow up to be leaders in business, the Media and politics so I don’t see why it’s a bad thing?

Like Brett Kavanaugh you mean? That someone our kids should aspire to be like!!!!!!

@LittleChristmasMouse I never said it was anything to do what was used, I was explaining to another poster that YOUR point of view did t care what was used, is that impossible for you to read and understand?

And stop lecturing me, your views are NOT mine is that also impossible for you to understand?

You're not going to convince me that this anything other that an OTT joke, I do not believe these boys are going to grow into bullying monsters!

WallyTheWasher
I don't think a kid being upset is unrecoverable. I do think that this incident has the potential to have long lasting implications for the boys though and I fail to see how the reactions of the parents can prevent that?

The boys have had to go out, and possibly go to school, looking like that today. Their parents, no matter how up beat they are, can't control the reactions of the kids at school. They can't control any long term teasing or name calling that their sons get as a result.

Explain to me how you as a parent stop that from affecting your child? How do you stop your child from maybe not wanting to go on sleep overs again?

Some people feel things more keenly than others. What upsets you might not upset me. That doesn't make one of us right and the other wrong.

I never said it was anything to do what was used, I was explaining to another poster that YOUR point of view did t care what was used, is that impossible for you to read and understand?

But you don't know my point of view and your attempt to explain my point of view was wrong. Is that impossible for you to understand?

I don't need you to speak on my behalf thank you.

If this had happened to my DS he would have been really upset. He hates anything being put on his face, has refused point blank to ever have face paint. He knows he has to have sun cream but really doesn't tolerate anything else. It's his main sensory issue, and we just accept it.

Most of his secondary school mates wouldn't know this about him. So if he had woken up drawn on, he would have been upset. Firstly, because he would feel singled out (was horribly bullied at Primary School so maybe understandably a little sensitive) and then the horror of something on his face, and then the added horror of various other things being put on his face to try and get the ink off. Would people still think this was funny? What about children with even greater sensory issues?

If the children had all been awake and someone had suggested drawing on their faces, DS would have had the option to not get involved. When asleep he wouldn't have that option.

ineedaholidaynow

This is what people aren't getting isn't it? It's the removal of choice, the right of the boys to do what they wanted to someone else without considering how that person would feel.

If the kid doesn’t ever want to go to a sleepover again Mouse then they don’t have to go! You can’t stop it! That’s the thing - you have no control over that so why worry? But your reaction to something bad happening could encourage them to think they can never go again. So if say you told or implied to a child that there may be long lasting implications that could cause them unnecessary anxiety. Why plant that seed? It’s very all or nothing which kids are like-they say your brain doesn’t mature until you’re 25-but as adults I think we should model a level of control over how we react and demonstrate balance and an “it’s goung to be ok, you can get through this”type attitude .

So if say you told or implied to a child that there may be long lasting implications that could cause them unnecessary anxiety.

But I wouldn't be saying this.

They would be experiencing the effects ie the teasing the boy got at football, the teasing that they will inevitably get at school, the looks people will get when they are on the bus etc. They don't need to be told about it, they will be seeing and hearing it.

Some kids would not be able to deal with that attention. Some kids are shy and don't like being the centre of attention. That is how they are. Is it ok for them to have that forced upon them by the actions of someone else.

I've just had a conversation with my son (14) about this, and if he - a teenager whose brain is in full on daft mode - can grasp that you just don't do that to someone else whilst they're sleeping... then why can't some of the adults on here?!

Lack of consent equals, and I'm not being alarmist about this (unfortunately), assault. If these boys, and it wasn't just the OP's son, don't grasp the concept of consent fairly soon? Then their lives might be blighted by "he said/she didn't say" events.

Incidentally OP, obviously the parents of the boys who were drawn on know about what happened... but did you inform the parents of the wannabe artists about their behaviour? How did they react?