To be furious that DS and friends have drawn on faces with sharpie at sleepover

[peoplepleaser1]

Yesterday was DS' 12th birthday. He had 6 friends sleep overnight.

They've been no trouble but I've got up this morning to find they've drawn on the faces of two sleeping friends with sharpie whilst they were asleep.

They have drawn moustaches, bushy eyebrows and cheek roses. I've tried to remove it with them but it's still quite visible. Both kids have quite pale skin which has made it even more visible.

I'm mortified, and upset and angry that DS let this happen under our roof. I was responsible for these kids and I feel terrible that they did this.

I've told DS to carry on as normal and that I'll deal with him once they've all gone home.

I'm not usually very strict and DS is usually a good kid but I'm really annoyed with him- well with all of them tbh but it's not my place to do anything about that.

DS is going to his dads tonight, we aren't together. I have mentioned it to him and he has said I'm ridiculous and overreacting. I planned to ban DS from electronics for a couple of days but his Dad has said he won't back me up so I can't do that.

AIBU and overreacting?!

Wow, pretty shocked at the number of people minimising this or saying they would laugh and take pictures! I would be very angry if my DS had done this or had it done to him. You're not overreacting OP. If your ex won't back you up on punishment then that's a shame but I would absolutely have consequences for your DS when he comes home.

Apologising properly is the way to go I think. When I was about 10 I did something mean to a friend. My mother made me go to her house and apologise to her and her mother. It was a lesson I’ve never forgotten. My son’s friend caused him an injury by being thoughtless and careless too. Same thing - the friend apologised to him and to me. It was a learning process for them both. Children do silly and wrong things. It’s part of growing up. ‘I thought better of you’ is more powerful than the loss of the use of electronics - though there were none when I or my children were young. :-)

WD 40 will remove it from skin. Spray on a cloth thinly and it does the trick

This thread highlights the different standards in parenting.

Sorry it really doesn't because it's not as black and white as that. As with many things in life, there is a balance to be struck. In my view saying it is a non-event is totally wrong, as is (in this context) calling it assault. Just because some of us are trying to take a balanced view doesn't mean we have crap parenting standards thank you!

I’m sure all the people saying it is fine would be happy to go to work with pen drawn all over their face, just like these children will have to go to school. It’s only character building after all

If the pen is still clearly visible I assume it is possible that these children may be put in isolation/detention

WD40 will remove it. Spray thinly on a soft cloth and it wipes away.

Boys will be boys

Surely that should be “boys will be held accountable for their actions, just like girls”?

OP I don’t think you’re overreacting, especially if the boys themselves are upset. A joke isn’t a joke if it causes someone to be hurt either emotionally or physically.

Nanny0gg
Can’t remember how long it took to come off because having pen on you is not a big deal in real life so I did not pay attention. She’s 4.

What’s one of “those girls”? 🙄

I think if mine had done this to themselves I'd laugh. Doing it to others is where I'd draw my line and there'd be definite consequences for it.

OP I think parenting is working out that line between "what a tool, why'd you do that" and "woah, too far" and with this everyone has different lines and it's fine for some people to react differently. Mine would be here; I'd explain exactly why it's not alright, how those children must have felt and I'd have him making a proper apology to their parents.

Have you tried nail varnish remover OP or gin at a push.

I'd be funing too, and tempted to draw on ds in sharpie.

Have you checked that none of the boys have taken photos of the drawings? Or worse, posted them online?

I think this is an important question. Have you asked them about this, op?

The possibility of something like this happening is one of the arguments in favour of removing phones overnight at sleepovers, imo.

OP I’d be cross and mortified as well. It is bullying. Don’t minimise it.

Make the boys involve apologise to the parents and child. Apologies yourself.

I would ban your son from sleepovers until he can show you he has learnt his lesson.

I’m surprised how many people think this was fun, a prank. It would be completely different if they had all sat around drawing on each other, but targeting 2 boys when they are asleep is unkind. Especially with permanent marker. Would any of you be happy to go about your daily business with permanent marker on your face? I guarantee you wouldn’t - if you wouldn’t why should a 12 year old boy?

Can you imagine what the comments would have been if it was say a boy a few years old and a girlfriend? Or even girls involved. People would be outraged and quite rightly so.

I have a 12 yo and 'banter' and 'jokes' are the bane of my life!!! It's hilarious one minute and nasty the next. They are learning the boundaries of this kind of stuff and subsequently will overstep the mark on occasion. I would use the experience to talk about the boundaries but would certainly not catastrophise it or go ott with punishment. I would also not expect ds to be responsible for the behaviour of his peers. I don't like sleepovers for this very reason. Impossible for an adult to keep checking on them all night and they egg each other on.

Oh god op. On first thinking I didn't feel it was a big deal but actually looking back to the year I turned 12, I'm guessing they're all in year 7? There's so many changes and friendships being redefined, it's a hard time and I can absolutely see why the boys would be upset, it's a shitty thing to do. I wouldn't be impressed picking my child up like that either, especially if they were upset.

"Can’t remember how long it took to come off because having pen on you is not a big deal in real life so I did not pay attention. She’s 4."

And it didn't occur to you that the humiliation might feel slightly different for a 12yo than for a 4yo? Or that a 4yo would hardly be put in exclusion for turning up at school with pen markings on their face but that a 12yo might well?

If you think "real life" is the same at all ages, would you feel the same if you e.g. went to a conference and some of your colleagues sneaked in at night and did the same to you? Because "real life" is the same for all ages, right?

12 is a tricky age. It's one where young people are still socially clumsy but also acutely aware of how precarious their group acceptance may be and how easy it is to end up a target. Very different from parenting a 4yo.

Of course you don't need to enforce draconian punishments, OP- but then I don't really see any posters suggesting this. A serious talking to, a genuine apology and making it clear that sleepovers will not be happening until you can be sure there is no ganging up. Also, as has already been said, check there were no photos taken- because they can easily be used for bullying- and if there is any risk of repercussions at school offering to explain.

Does your son's dad realise that sharpies are permanent markers?

I'm genuinely shocked at some of the responses here. Letting boys get away with 'pranks' is what leads to behaviour as adults that the same people would be horrified by.
That's without even going into the very sexist attitudes on display.

I also think that something like this happening will follow those boys through school.

If they have to go in on Monday like this, or if pictures are circulating, then you can guarantee these boys will have some "witty" nickname to follow them through the next 5 years.

Can’t remember how long it took to come off because having pen on you is not a big deal in real life so I did not pay attention. She’s 4.

LOL! Hell of a difference between a four year-old and a twelve year-old who didn't do it himself and has to face secondary school!

What’s one of “those girls”?
Mean ones

Oh God!

And I didn't even think of secondary school + phones + social media!

ineedaholidaynow
Most schools have broken up now

Interestingly I think OP might have been on MN late last night asking whether devices/phones should be taken away at a sleepover. Antics like this are a reason why that is a good idea.

I wonder whether the different responses have any direct correlation between those who were bullied or who were the bullies at school?

Tansy OP has said the boys will be in school on Monday

Oh ok missed that

It depends on the background dynamic. If there are one or two kids who are always the victims of pranks, I would have a problem with that. If there is an expectation that this will go both ways and that the victims will find it funny and probably prank back at some point... I would tell them off but not go apeshit.

Nivea face wipes (not sure if it's a particular type) will help remove - although this was not long after the incident - speaking from experience of young children using Sharpies as face paints!