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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DH thinks we're going to get arrested in Dubai

714 replies

willyougobacktobed · 04/04/2019 18:34

Going to Dubai next week for Easter on a mini break with DH. As a tactile couple who enjoys a couple of drinks with dinner he's getting really anxious that we're going to get arrested if we a) unthinkingly give each other a peck on the cheek or b) share a bottle of wine and have a giggle.

He has googled their strict laws and legal systems LOTS.

I think he's BU, his worries and mithering are making me not look as forward to a holiday I've saved hard for as much as I otherwise would.

Are we going to get arrested?!

OP posts:
breeze44 · 09/04/2019 07:08

Briefly de-lurking to say that Ferret, posts like yours are one of the reasons it's pointless for me to continue posting on here. You are so narrow-minded that you can't accept there is any way to deal with abuse of women other than the solutions that YOU see as acceptable, regardless of whether they actually work within the community under discussion.
Unless I declare that all men in Arab countries hate women (as stated in the book that was linked to) and that we have to change our religion to solve problems, I will be seen as an enabler of abuse by posters like you.

I have clearly stated that any abuse of women taking place has to be tackled, but it has to be dealt with in a way that reflects the religious and cultural background of the people involved. Imposing a Western-style solution onto the community will not work and the majority of women will not accept that.

I have never enabled abuse, and I personally know people who have intervened to prevent women from being harassed, parents who have ordered their sons to treat their wives better. I also have seen situations where women have found good solutions by going to court, but it would be a court dealing with family issues, not a criminal court. We have plenty of ways of dealing with abuse within our community. Extended families are very involved in each others' lives and usually committed to working for peace and harmony in family relationships.

Our public spaces are always busy with people keeping an eye out for anyone that might get into a difficult situation and they don't hesitate to intervene. (This can be different in tourist areas, however, as people are often unsure whether their intervention would be welcome).

If I have to spend all my time responding to posts like yours which accuse me of things I have never actually said nor implied, it prevents me from responding to other posters who are actually engaging with the arguments and having a dialogue. This is why I stopped posting on the other thread, as every few posts there was someone telling me to 'stop saying X' when it was obvious that I had actually said nothing of the kind.

Not to mention posts like chicken's which add nothing to the discussion whatsoever and are just accusations with nothing to back them up.

As for the idea that other Muslim women would be hesitant to speak their mind to me for fear of being judged - that's laughable and shows how little you know about the people you're talking about. In Arab countries - or at least in the Maghreb region but I'm pretty sure all Arabs as well - children, both male and female, are brought up to be extremely tough and resilient. Some observers say that every discussion between Arabs looks like an argument because people get so passionate about their views. Even the most sensitive women I know have no problem expressing their views and standing up for themselves.

And the point about what Muslims believe is that this is what Islam teaches. It's not subjective.

Xenia · 09/04/2019 07:51

If it were that clear I am not sure there would be shia/sunni etc (and ven the off shoot Druze) differences though surely?

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 07:57

Our public spaces are always busy with people keeping an eye out for anyone that might get into a difficult situation and they don't hesitate to intervene. (This can be different in tourist areas, however, as people are often unsure whether their intervention would be welcome).

Where specifically are 'our public spaces' and who is 'us' in this context?

Do you mean in the UK or in predominantly Arab/Muslim countries?

breeze are you a convert? Or a revert, as you would probably prefer to call it?

Are you Arab/North African by heritage or did you marry a man who is?

Why did your sons not get circumcised at birth as would usually be the case?

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 09/04/2019 07:59

I just do not get the attraction of going to Dubai. At all.

swingofthings · 09/04/2019 08:04

Great Post @breeze44

breeze44 · 09/04/2019 08:17

Xenia, Ahl as-Sunnah (Sunnis) are just the main body of the Muslims. The Shia sect started out due to political differences not theological ones, they disagreed over who was the most appropriate person to become the leader of the Muslims after the Prophet passed away (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). But over time they developed different methodologies and in some cases different beliefs.
The Sufis started out as just normal Muslims who wanted to be more ascetic as a reaction to society becoming more wealthy and materialistic. But again over time it took on different dimensions.

It's nothing to do with anything not being clear.

breeze44 · 09/04/2019 08:19

Sorry Ellen I was referring to Arab countries that I have lived in in the past in areas that have some tourists but are not tourist resorts like Dubai.
I don't want to give too much personal info about myself or which countries I've lived in etc.

My sons are circumcised, not sure why you think they are not?

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 08:30

Are you a convert and why, if not, did you not get your children circumcised shortly after birth as would be normal in a Muslim household? I noticed from the thread about circumcision that one of your children was circumcised as a toddler and I'm wondering why.

Surely answering whether you have grown up in a Muslim family or whether you are a convert doesn't give much away? It's hardly terribly personal or outing.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 08:31

And it's not difficult to work out which country (or at least one of them) you have a particular link to, for anyone who is interested in knowing.

moon2 · 09/04/2019 08:42

Slavery was only abolished in the British Empire in 1833 not several hundred years ago. 186 years ago. The time of our great, great, great grandparents for some. Not that far off. Slave owners were paid a pretty sum to compensate them for their financial losses for the value of each slave. Does not justify it anywhere today though.

breeze44 · 09/04/2019 08:49

Well, exactly, that's what I'm worried about. One piece of information might not be outing on its own but it's obvious that there are certain posters who will go through your whole posting history to try and put together bits and pieces from here and there to get a whole picture. That's why I was vague about which area in the UK I was talking about on the other thread. But maybe I've already said too much on here.

Wrt circumcision, my son couldn't get it done immediately due to staying in hospital for some tests after birth. We missed the deadline for the procedure being done under LA so had to wait for it to be done under GA which isn't recommended for babies. Circumcision is usually done not long after birth but can be done any time before puberty.

Really not sure why you need to know all this or what relevance it has to the thread? I think I should have stuck with my original decision not to post anymore as I really don't know why someone would be 'interested in knowing' my personal info.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 08:51

So I am going to assume you are a convert, which really does make a great deal of sense.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 08:52

And you've already given enough information about your son in your last post to out you, should anyone look for such info.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 08:53

So I think the truth is that you don't want to tell me you converted to marry a muslim man.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 08:59

We missed the deadline for the procedure being done under LA so had to wait for it to be done under GA which isn't recommended for babies.

That there is an age deadline for carrying out circumcision on a conscious, older child under only a local anaesthetic confirms everything I already suspected about the considerable trauma that babies actually experience when they are ritually circumcised.

breeze44 · 09/04/2019 09:00

No, Ellen, that is not the truth. I would never convert to another religion for the purposes of getting married to a man, although I have plenty of respect for those women who did convert to Islam shortly before getting married to Muslim men, as I have seen some of them become very committed to their religion.

No-one irl knows the exact details of what went on with my son except my husband so I don't see how that would out me.

Let's just leave it at that as I don't really see where you're going with this line of questioning.

breeze44 · 09/04/2019 09:01

Not everywhere has a deadline. Ok I am going

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 09:03

This reply has been deleted

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moon2 · 09/04/2019 09:06

Gosh I don’t understand this big pallava about male circumcision when there are so many British and western men who have had it for medical reasons as children to prevent recurrent painful infections or something or other. It’s all getting a bit personal crikey. Leave it alone. No?

breeze44 · 09/04/2019 09:08

I'm not a man and I'm not a convert.

Ellenborough · 09/04/2019 09:11

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Aragog · 09/04/2019 09:19

We've just spent 2 days in the UAE, in Abu Dhabi, on our way to Singapore.

In the hotels and resorts (we went to Ferrari World) there were no issues at all. T shorts were perfectly fine. I had linen trousers on simply to cover from the sun, as did 16y Dd. But there were plenty in shorts and there was no issues and no stating, certainly no worse than the UK.

Drinking in the hotel was certainly not an issue. It was available with no restriction and though dearer than home, not as excessive as we'd thought it would be.

The second day we ventured out into AbuDhabi itself with a visit to the Grand Mosque, and then to the Corniche for a walk on the front.

Again we wore linen trousers and t shorts. Dh wore longer shorts. Dd and I were given clothing to wear at the mosque which covered our arms and head. Almost everyone was - unless in traditional dress anyway. By the front there were no issues and at times dh did hold either mine or DD's hand. Again this wasn't an issue. And in the malls it wasn't either. We didn't try to drink outside of the hotel anyway but I don't think it's actually available to buy anyway.

We didn't notice any staring at all. Dd particularly commented on it and said it's worse back home in the UK for that! But we were fairly modestly dressed in longer trousers and t shorts, and saved swim wear for the hotel.

I had the added issue of taking medication including codeine but even that was diary easy sorted in advance.

As for it not being clean - it's probably one of the cleanest places I've ever visited. TBH both there and Singapore are spotless in our experience.

We went simply as a lay over in the way to Singapore rather than a holiday. We took advantage of it and stayed two nights as Dd was really keen to visit Ferrari World and ride the fast coaster. Later today we return but only have 3 hours there. We will probably do similar on our way to Japan in the summer, though only 24 hours in Dubai. They're not really places I had an urge to holiday in but we did enjoy our time in Abu Dhabi last week.

Chickenblc · 09/04/2019 14:05

So you sent that you're a bigot?

Ferret27 · 09/04/2019 18:25

Breeze .... there is a very sensible way to deal with all abuse irrelevant of it stemming from religious doctrine or local custom...
Stop enabling the mindset that it festers in... this includes western countries with Neanderthal men or women ... I haven’t read your previous posts ..but I don’t think I have expressed my views at all differently than you ...
In fact you are more narrow minded than me surely as you cannot move from away from your teachings... and you are pretty insistent that you speak for the majority of Muslim women..
I see the failings and the positives in your religion as I do all other religions in this world..If A baby was found adrift in a boat ... it would not have any religion... until the point it comes in to contact with an adult and has their religion imposed upon it.

Hope to one day engage in debate on another thread on how we stop
the subjugation of women,children and minority groups. Or one on blind faith...

Ferret27 · 09/04/2019 18:39

Ps .. Breeze...you really sound unbelievably condescending regarding converts to any faith... you have an inate sense of superiority... your whole para on that last post is dripping with it ...
‘I would never convert for any man’ ... and ‘some of them become very committed.... ‘you sound like judge and jury... you don’t sound like a compassionate person ... and the fake comments of wanting to discuss opinions with posters do not ring true ... you assume that I and others do not know our Muslim friends or do not have experiences that have given us our perspectives...

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