DH thinks we're going to get arrested in Dubai

[willyougobacktobed]

Going to Dubai next week for Easter on a mini break with DH. As a tactile couple who enjoys a couple of drinks with dinner he's getting really anxious that we're going to get arrested if we a) unthinkingly give each other a peck on the cheek or b) share a bottle of wine and have a giggle.

He has googled their strict laws and legal systems LOTS.

I think he's BU, his worries and mithering are making me not look as forward to a holiday I've saved hard for as much as I otherwise would.

Are we going to get arrested?!

There is no such thing as 'corrective rape' in Islam.

Ellen, I think that the people who are critical of Dubai are the same people who are critical of Muslims practicing their religion in the West.

@breeze44 A man is not allowed to be alone with a woman he is not related to

Well that's a relief, no rapes in those countries then!

I am being sarcastic btw. Do you know anything about rape statistics and sexual abuse?

The majority of rapes are carried out by men known to the victim - including family members.

www.npr.org/books/titles/428984930/headscarves-and-hymens-why-the-middle-east-needs-a-sexual-revolution

According to this Muslim author, sexual harassment of Muslim women in these countries is rife

The majority of rapes are carried out by men known to the victim - including family members.

Yes but how is it going to happen with so many people around?

It’s hard to argue that the Middle East is a progressive place for women or indeed gay people. So I am not sure why anyone is even trying to discuss it!

According to mona eltahaway who wrote that book - sexual assault does happen but women are to scared and ashamed to report it.

Sexual harassment happens a lot in some countries but not so much in others, and what I'm talking about is the ideal, and the way things used to be and still are in some countries to an extent.
In the countries I have a connection with, people intervene if they see sexual harassment taking place. I know of situations where men have been beaten up for harassing women.

In other countries it may well be different. There is nothing wrong with fighting against sexual harassment and introducing measures to prevent it, and actually some famous Islamic scholars have called for it to be dealt with in their countries.

The problem is when you start calling for a 'sexual revolution' rather than an Islamic solution.

I found the excerpt from that book incredibly depressing.

Mona Eltahawy and other campaigners would get much more support in fighting abuse of women if they were not also calling for blasphemy and the overthrow of many Islamic laws.

My experience and the experience of many other Muslim women is totally different from hers. I don't feel that men in my family or religious scholars hate me, at all, and I don't know anyone who does feel like that.

Alll of the Muslim women I know would want to stop abuse and harassment, but never give up our religion.

Yes but how is it going to happen with so many people around?

I'm sorry but this shows a staggering level of naivety. Rape happens, it happens everywhere. Sexual abuse happens especially where there is a complacent attitude and a belief that it can not happen.

Breeze you can count me out of that theory. I wouldn't visit Dubai but I couldn't care less what religion anyone chooses to follow in the country I live. I like the legal system where I am.

These scary views are what prevent women reporting rapes, how can anyone be comfortable in being complicit with that is beyond me.

@breeze44

Your opposition to a 'sexual revolution' is worrying.

I recently taught a 17 year old Muslim girl in the U.K. who believed that masturbation might get her pregnant.

Keeping people ignorant and not educating them about their sexuality is dangerous and repressive and actually leads to abuses.

Windows surely it's obvious I'm not talking about keeping people ignorant or not teaching them about sexuality. There is nothing in Islam preventing us from educating young people about sexuality when they are old enough to understand (and 17 is beyond being old enough).

What I'm opposed to is the idea that we have to adopt the approach of embracing blasphemy, removing our hijab, condemning and despising our male relatives and scholars, etc etc. which was mentioned in the link given.

There are ways to deal with ignorance and abuse that don't involve stereotyping all Arabs and Muslims and thinking that one woman's negative experiences extend to the whole of society.

I drop the F bomb about every 7 seconds , that's the reason I refuse to go to that Stone Age place .

Yes but how is it going to happen with so many people around?

Because a women is going to be alone with a man at some point. Like her husband for example.

And even if it is a stranger. She goes off on her own somewhere, even though it's against some ridiculous oppressive rule or whatever. She's raped. She reports it to the police, and is put in jail because there's not enough evidence that she was raped. (Isn't a man's evidence worth more that a women's anyway?). Are you really saying this is okay?

Ellenborough I was not speaking specifically of Dubai, I was speaking in general.

breeze44 whatever you feel about your own culture I do think the future generations of girls and women with internet access are going to want to challenge "A man is not allowed to be alone with a woman he is not related to. Women generally don't go out at night. When they go out, they only do so to safe, busy public places or in groups. When they travel they are accompanied by a male relative. There is no dating or relationships before marriage." Because it restricts one's personal choices.

Of one chooses that lifestyle, fine, but being born into a culture that levels that on all females, oppressive IMHO.

I know several people who live there including relatives and you have to be really really careful. Respect the culture and be aware canoodling is very much frowned on even for married people as is very loud or abusive behaviour.
It isn't Benidorm.

I learned last week that you cannot make video calls in Dubai… I was in the airport and I needed to call my mother. I am visually impaired, and I video call a lot especially when I need help with something. An employee at the airport told me that you cannot do this. So make sure you know the rules. And please, follow them.

Windows surely it's obvious I'm not talking about keeping people ignorant or not teaching them about sexuality

No actually it isn't obvious. You link cultural expectations (wearing hijab) and link them to a religion, Islam.

You need to separate culture from religion for your arguments to be valid. Yet you constantly confuse them. Many cultures, that happen to be mainly Islamic, have very repressive cultural norms.

Wearing hijab is a religious requirement not just a cultural norm. There is consensus among Islamic scholars that hijab is compulsory.

Op you really should take your husband's concerns seriously, it's a Muslim country that has stricter laws...I read awhile ago a couple got arrested and jailed briefly Because the taxi driver said they had been inappropriate in his taxi... what did that in appropriate turn out to be...they were talking like any couple would on holiday, pointing out stuff to each other and being generally excited , and they made the mistake of holding hands...and that was enough to get them in trouble

Op you are going to a place where if a woman get raped, she is the one who gets punished by jail etc ...

Please take your husband seriously, and rein in your drinking, they may allow it in the resort, but once you are out of the resort if you act intoxicated or booze can be smelled on you then they will arrest you because alcohol is illegal there...

If you are going to.holiday there, respect their laws are different to laws here and there are going to be many normal things you can do here that will be forbidden and illegal there, and you will.just have to decide do you want to grit your teeth and abide by their laws for the duration of your holiday...or do.you want a prison sentence..

I'm not the confused one. Some people confuse their culture with Islam and that's where I'm saying that the issue can be dealt with by pointing out the correct Islamic ruling e.g. forced marriage is not allowed.

", I think that the people who are critical of Dubai are the same people who are critical of Muslims practicing their religion in the West."

That's what you call utter bullshit.

breeze, I know a lot of muslims who don't cover their head actually, so whilst you may disagree with their religious interpretation I don't agree that it is required in Islam.