DH thinks we're going to get arrested in Dubai

[willyougobacktobed]

Going to Dubai next week for Easter on a mini break with DH. As a tactile couple who enjoys a couple of drinks with dinner he's getting really anxious that we're going to get arrested if we a) unthinkingly give each other a peck on the cheek or b) share a bottle of wine and have a giggle.

He has googled their strict laws and legal systems LOTS.

I think he's BU, his worries and mithering are making me not look as forward to a holiday I've saved hard for as much as I otherwise would.

Are we going to get arrested?!

breeze You think we are so stupid as to not realise other people think differently to us!!
I know that some people think being gay is a sin and that the answer is to throw gay men from tall buildings or "correctively rape" lesbians.
I do not accept that they are right.

Carol Danvers

It's got nothing to do with snobbery and everything to do with conscience. And no, I haven't been to Thailand or India, or the Phillipines, or China. I won't go to Australia because of their godawful racism (and also because I really don't fancy it lol). I went to Mexico, but it was in 1983, when I spent a month staying with a friend in NY.

I won't even go to Spain until they ban bullfighting, the fuckers.

I think dreadful regimes with awful cultural norms only last as long as they do sadly because many women are complicit ...as in honour killings and preferring sons over daughters... or mutilating young girls
Before women got the vote here ... they had to battle with many women in society who supported the male run world they knew and the status quo of the day... so just because some women feel it’s ok .... history shows that eventually when living within a society which offers real freedom and more humanity or one with a limited version ... they will choose real and equal freedom

I won't even go to Spain until they ban bullfighting, the fuckers.

They do it in France too.

Why risk going to Dubai? It appears as though you can get arrested for virtually anything!

All the sanctimonious posters slagging off Dubai but no criticism of their own (fast growing) Muslim population...
It's an Islamic country (one of the better ones). Time to ponder your own futures if you find it so abhorrent.

Has the OP got on the plane yet??

Can't for the life of me think why you've booked to go there if you can't abide by their (ridiculous) laws.

@Aquilla what has that got to do with anything?

From the BBC today.... British mother faces Dubai jail over Facebook 'horse' insult www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47847740

OMG....... What happened to live and let live and agree to disagree?
We are all supposed to be adults and have different opinions, we should respect that. Be kind with your thoughts and words.
This all started with a question about what to expect in Dubai.

clairemcnam completely agree.

Sheogorath "I can accept that other people think differently. I cannot accept that mysigonic and homophobic laws are okay."

Completely agree.

I'm what might be called 'religious' (Christian), and personally very modest (in dress) most of the time, no desire to 'commit adultery' etc etc but completely support every one else's right to have their own moral code.

I don't wear a head covering but have met Christians and Muslims who do. But if I loved in a place where women had to cover their heads I'd feel that was oppressive.

I think people here are are not assuming what others may feel regards religion or morals but human rights and freedoms go beyond one's own moral code.

I used to live there, we were in Dubai Marina and had a very active social life, which involved drinking and going out. Seriously you’re fine, don’t listen to all the horror stories, they’re rare. We would hold hands down the street but not much more than that. Even the Emiratis hold hands, well some do. Don’t stress

@LakieLady

Our “godawful racism”? Please don’t tar us all with that brush. Many of us are frustrated at our government’s stance on refugees and attitude towards indigenous Australians (I presume these are what you’re referring to?)

Yes, we have a lot of rednecks who unfortunately manage to get power and platforms for themselves, and they are a national embarrassment. But I’ve lived in the UK and it’s no more a bastion of racial tolerance than Australia is.

Aquilla that’s a very good point and something of an irony, really.

There is definitely a huge disconnect between the tolerance of those who practice Islam quite pedantically in the UK and the ‘live and let live’ attitude of the ardent fans of multiculturalism who just don’t want to rock the boat, and the fierce criticism of certain values, practices and cultural mores which are undoubtedly deeply rooted in Islam and sharia law.

Its clearly okay to screech about it when it happens in Dubai but God forbid anyone should dare to express any concern about the potential for those same values and cultural mores to gradually become part of the fabric of our society and the same people seem to get quite annoyed and call you a racist Islamophobe.

I wish they’d learn to differentiate between an Islamophobe and a racist though.There is an annoying assumption that if you are critical of Islam or of Muslims in the UK who use Islam to excuse behaviour that is illegal, or just plain offensive by UK societal standards, you must be a racist.

Bellini it’s got quite a lot to do with it, actually.

Italian Dubai is NOT a place where women have to cover their heads. Of the Muslim women there, many will but plenty won’t. Some will cover themselves in lack from head to tow including face and hands, others will merely wear a headscarf or turban and avoid bare legs and arms. It’s (somewhat) personal choice, often but not always (heavily) influenced by the wishes of their father or husband, it depends entirely on how devout they are and sometimes it’s just a cultural identity thing.

It’s not like Saudi or Iran, where ever woman has to cover herself in public regardless of her status, nationality or religion and faces arrest if she doesn’t.

And it’s not like Egypt where you are free to not cover in theory, but risk being harassed, spat on, hissed at and groped if you don’t.

Black from head to TOE. Damn you autocorrect. 😤

@Ellenborough , there are anti misogyny and anti slavery laws in this country. There is also, for example, equal marriage laws. That is the difference. It is absolutely different. And, by the way, I wouldn't holiday in Dubai if you paid me.

And it’s not like Egypt where you are free to not cover in theory, but risk being harassed, spat on, hissed at and groped if you don’t.

In Egypt the groping is entirely unrelated to what you wear. Same with the other abuse. Women in full niqab experience it all too. It reduces as you age, but the only thing that works as actual protection is being a man.

I'm not a fan of Dubai. I wouldn't choose to go on holiday there. I would go for work or visiting friends, but not a regular sort of holiday when I could choose anywhere else.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47847740

Arrested on arrival to Dubai for name calling post on social media, which was done 2yrs ago whilst in UK

Yes, I saw that. Dubai needs to get its act together and improve on these kinds of issues.

Claire and sheogorath, it's not about whether you think it's right or okay. It's about you assuming that Muslim women living in countries with traditional values and cultures share your view and feel that they are living under oppression.
Or seeing a few women in a country campaigning against certain laws and assuming that they are representative of how other women feel.
I'm not speaking for all Muslim women in the world, but I'm sick of people looking at a few, unrepresentative women campaigning for something and assuming that other women support them in that. We are a silent majority with no voice in the media. When we do speak up we get dismissed.

If a woman works within the Islamic framework to fight oppression, most women will support her. If she tries to distort Islam, they won't agree with that.

Obviously no woman wants to be raped! It should be obvious that's not what I'm saying.
But in traditional Muslim countries the system is different. Men and women are segregated in private spaces. A man is not allowed to be alone with a woman he is not related to. Women generally don't go out at night. When they go out, they only do so to safe, busy public places or in groups. When they travel they are accompanied by a male relative. There is no dating or relationships before marriage.

So in those kind of conditions, it's very difficult for a rapist to get a chance as there are always people around.
People think that kind of lifestyle is restrictive but for us it is normal. The difficulty is when you have this kind of tourism involving alcohol and partying etc. in a strict Muslim country. That's what I meant about the clash of expectations. Authorities expect tourists, up to a point, to act like Muslims. Western tourists expect to find the same kind of lifestyle and laws as what they are used to at home. It just doesn't work.

history shows that eventually when living within a society which offers real freedom and more humanity or one with a limited version ... they will choose real and equal freedom

The two situations aren't comparable. In Western countries there is a separation between church and state, so it's considered fine for laws to evolve in relation to social norms.
But Islam is a complete way of life. Even when we live in a country where all of the Islamic laws are not implemented, we still maintain an Islamic lifestyle as much as we can.