AIBU to think that Leave voters who complain about a lack of democracy are hypocrites?

[KennDodd]

Because they completely ignore the proven illegalities around the Leave campaign that would have made void the result had the referendum been binding.

Not rtft... but I think we all know many Leavers don’t ordinarily give a shite about the value of democracy in its own right. They care about the outcome of the democratic process favourable to their interests; would they revolt against their interests if these were secured as the result of a non-democratic process? Nah mate. A second ref would not prove that the govt. doesn’t hold its promises; it would be a confirmation to check whether Brexit was still the majority choice. If it turned out that it was not, then it would confirm it would have been a bad (undemocratic) idea to go ahead with Brexit without checking again; that would, unwittingly, be a decision against the ‘will of the people’. I don’t see any Leavers flapping about that prospect. What would be undemocratic would be to revoke A50 with no second referendum, which has never seriously been on the table, but on that reasoning, so would leaving with no referendum be undemocratic - because we know there is a majority opinion out there, but we don't know what it is currently, and if we don't know it then we won't be able to say that the ultimate decision reached accords with it.

If Leavers are right in claiming it’s the ‘will of the people’ that we leave, then they’ll be vindicated in the second vote. How on earth can they lose, if 'upholding democracy' is their concern here? Unless in fact they’re not really that bothered about democracy, and rather using this to pad their argument because they know well they’re talking bollocks about their position being representative of the majority, and that a second ref wouldn’t go as they wanted.

So two people and a ‘posh fella’.
I think far more land owners voted remain as farmers have tended to do well out of the EU.

What is the point of a referendum at all, if there are going to be retakes as the outcome was not what remainers wanted. If remain had got the majority vote, than we would all have to accept the decision, not demand another referendum. Just makes a joke out of the process.

newspaper magnates, non dom peers, Ritz Owners, the landed gentry and public school educated

so you accept ALL the others but we havent listed enough landed gentry for you- even though jrm is prob the most famous brexiteer in the country?

and you still think brexit was actually anti-establishment.

farmers voted brexit as i understand it.

viscount rhodri phillips that was his name- nice fella.

Im getting a bit pissed off with the

'If brexit doesnt happen its remainers fault'

If we brexit and it turns out to be the shittest thing in history and no one is sllowed to blame leave voters (which i agree with)

How the fuck does it end up being my fault

The government have fucked up,...from what i can see one of the biggest problems is the hard core brexit politicians who are REFUSING to compromise

Oh and for the love of god enough with the

'If remain had won leavers would have just accepted it' bollocks

Apparently no leave voter would have complained or marched for another referendum or anything

Yes the government fucked up, those who are in charge of Brexit were remainers so it is not what they really wanted and are trying to wheedle their way out of it.

Yes the government fucked up, those who are in charge of Brexit were remainers

Rubbish

It’s not remainers who are dragging it out, it’s the bloody rigid ERG for whom no Brexit could ever be hard enough.

Article 50 had to be invoked before negotiations were opened. The EU insisted on it.

Teresa May, was a remainer, so were those responsible for Brexit!

Yes the government fucked up, those who are in charge of Brexit were remainers

TOTAL bollocks

Johnson, Davies, Fox, Raab, Barclay

All leavers, all held key brexit related posts. None delivered.

Say what you like about May, she has done far more to make brexit happen than any leaver.

Do you actually understand what Brexit means @Aeroflotgirl? By its very definition, leavers are responsible.

Remoaners bleating about democracy, when they've completely wrecked it and are wrecking it every day in the House of Commons. Ruled by Brussels, what the hell has that got to do with democracy? On what planet? Or MPs who simply lied when they said in their party manifestos that they were committed to Referendum result to leave. I think we can see who are the true liars here.

newspaper magnates, non dom peers, Ritz Owners, the landed gentry and public school educated

I don’t know who they all voted, but evidently you do so please enlighten me.
Does Rupert Murdoch have a vote in this country?

Isen't it the government who are hypocrites, leading the people on that they would have a choice, when they had no intention to leave the EU!

Yes.

I mean, are we a fucking stage army? Why ask us, then say our vote will be honoured, include it in your manifestos, and then totally ignore it?

Appalling.

Aeroflot, could you just address my point regarding a second ref - the result will either be Leave, so will prove we didn't need the vote but at least nothing will change, or the result will be Remain, proving that we very much did need the vote in order to know that leaving the EU would be in contempt of majority opinion. How can you have a problem with either of these two options if what you sincerely hope is that we leave the UK on the basis of 'what the people want'?

Teresa May, was a remainer, so were those responsible for Brexit

Teresa may cam down on the side of remain when she thought they were going to win

We've no idea how she voted

She certainly became a very enthusiastic leaver straight after the vote

I have no idea what you mean about ...those responsible for Brexit?

Do you mean that twat Cameron

Cos personally i think gove and johnson and farage who led the leave campaign are responsible

Oh sorry missed lauries reply

And what laurie said

newspaper magnates, non dom peers, Ritz Owners, the landed gentry and public school educated
I don’t know who they all voted, but evidently you do so please enlighten me.
Does Rupert Murdoch have a vote in this country?

this is bizarre.

some brexiteers claim brexit is an anti-establishment movement. the poster responded with this list of very prominent and very establishment brexiteers.

your response? which landed gentry are brexiteers?
we told you some.
your response? anyway farmers were pro-remain.
that was wrong.
now you are trying to suggest that murdoch is not a brexiteer because he couldnt vote?
seriously?
putin, trump, isis, murdoch, banks, dyson, that weatherspoon chat, all were pro-brexit- that doesnt mean they could all vote.

can you help us all understand why you think voting for a movement led by powerful millionaire elites is anti-establishment?

BorisBogtrotter

Copy and paste Clav not checking her sources again I see.
It really is funny

Hello Boris - I hope you're not receiving performance related pay from the EU Commission - that would be funny.

funnelfanjo
^Clavinova that’s from over four months ago when only 60 staff had physically moved.*

Straight from the horse's mouth: EMA Press Release 23/01/2019

Focusing on these activities as part of BCP phase 4 should allow the Agency to cope with the anticipated staff loss of 25% of its total workforce
www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-relocation-updates

Happy for you to link to your source of information.

No comment on the miraculous MHRA jobs?
They currently have 8 job vacancies, when are the mythical 60 going to appear?

Thank goodness they've only got 8 job vacancies left today - we should have left the EU a week ago!! .

The Agency is a Government Trading Fund, substantially funded by fees. Our objectives for this Corporate Plan period include broadening our fees base by putting in place a fee regime for devices safety vigilance work.

velour i believe a referendum should happen once, people voted how they voted the first time, what if the majority vote to leave, will people be satisfied, or demand another referendum. I have lost all confidence in the government, they are just making a shit show of this.

They either don’t understand democracy, believe that direct democracy trust representative democracy (in which case they don’t understand the constitution) or they are not phrasing concerns about the democratic legitimacy of a representative system that ignores the results of direct democracy.

I have lost all confidence in the government, they are just making a shit show of this

Yep