Creepy commuting

[Shoxfordian]

Is it just me who keeps meeting creepy men on her commute to work?!

Today the checkout assistant in my regular sandwich shop told me he'd seen me somewhere before.

Yes I said, here, where I buy my lunch before work.

No, somewhere else he says and proceeds to ask where I work, he says he lives near there and how do I get there from the shop?! Then says he might see me later. I said he might not and scarpered. Asking all those questions made me wonder if he was planning to stalk me.

A few weeks ago, a bus driver in a parked bus shouted at me. I stopped and he said you look beautiful. Thanks. I really wanted a random man to validate me. Ugh.

There's another creepy man who gets my usual bus who used to talk to me all the time until I blanked him enough for him to get the message. Plus a creepy security guard at work, who has now left.

I must have a creepy man magnet somewhere on my person. I wish I could turn it off. Argh.

Headphones don't solve the problem. Men still talk at you so you take your headphones out and there you go.

I was happily listening to spotify a few months ago when a man decided to ask me what music I liked, said he was an amateur DJ and asked how much they charge me for spotify. Same as everyone else mate, ever heard of google?! Headphones don't protect you

So its continuing something and not picking up on the willingness to engage that becomes creepy, not the attempt in the first place?

I think so, yeah, obviously depending on how subtle the first attempt is. I still think it can be annoying when you're not in the mood to talk and someone else tries to, but it doesn't get creepy for me unless pushed.
I think there's also got to be some awareness of how likely the woman is to be attracted to you, which so many men seem to lack. There's a man across the road from me who is at least 40 years older than me. I would have thought that that alone would be enough to stop him from attempting to tell me how good I'm looking, make allusions to my sex life and actually touching me, but apparently not. He's fucking creepy.

It's pretty bloody easy to tell the difference between "friendly conversation" and creepiness.

It's depressing that women are still not given credence that we can assimilate what is going on and make the correct judgement.

I don't want to have a conversation though. I want to buy my lunch and leave, not make a friend.

The problem is staff are rated on being engaged and friendly. They can't win.

I live somewhere where it’s normal for people to talk to each other, pay each other compliments and start conversations with random strangers, I think it’s friendly, maybe it’s just because I live in a pretty chilled out friendly part of the country? I find it odd visiting London where people don’t make eye contact and don’t talk.

I don’t think these people are being creepy OP, maybe just being a bit friendly, maybe you are pretty and have the kind of face people want to talk too?

Some posters on this thread are making my bloody blood boil!

They either...

are a man

OR

have never ...

had a man hit on them, follow them, stalk them, make inappropriate remarks, grope them, call them a slag for rejecting them, been hit by a man for telling him to piss off when he grabbed their arse, been asked - by a man - where they work, where they live, if they have a boyfriend, why they don't smile, etc etc...

And as some posters have said, these SAME men never target other men with the same kind of 'conversation' and 'banter' - or ask similar questions, or behave in a similar manner with other men...... It's only ever women... and usually young ones (like under 35...)

Why these few posters think this behaviour of these men is acceptable just baffles me. Very bizarre attitude. I am also bemused to read that several posters think it's a 'compliment' for a random man to tell you 'you're beautiful,' and that you should be flattered, and somehow grateful. Jesus wept; have I just been transported back to the middle ages?!

As a number of posters have said, getting to middle age, and not having men hit on you every day is bliss. Very liberating to be able to go out of the house and not be scared to walk past a group of men, and not be worried about random men telling me to cheer up, or expecting me to be flattered he is talking to me, (and worry about him getting angry if I ignore him.)

As has been said said, there IS a difference between a man just making conversation, and being a creep. Can't put my finger on it what it is; but there IS a difference. You just know it when you see it/experience it.

Though thinking about it, I have never once been interrupted mid read by a woman stranger who felt entitled to engage me in conversation about my taste in literature. Funny that.

I was in the waiting room of the sexual health clinic last week, the guy opposite me was reading a book I have read and enjoyed. I could have tried to start a conversation, but decided it would be weird and creepy and would also interrupt him and prevent him from continuing to enjoy his book, so I left him to read in peace.

Leaving people alone to read in peace isn't hard, I can see no reason why having a penis would make it difficult to do, but apparently it does.

Are you Samantha Brick?

Everanewbie " As I'm sure the poster who used this example wouldn't have been too put out if the chap was potentially the man of her dreams"

we cross posted. I only ever hear this shite from men who are claiming to be desperately sad that a potential relationship might not happen because of this. Who cares? Men who think they are entitled to women, that's who cares.

it's shit. We are reading, wearing headphones - fucking obvious that we don't want to talk. Also fucking obvious that we don't want to be asked "where are you going?" Also fucking obvious that you don't ask about someone's route home, work etc, you are being a stalker.

I saw a woman on the Tube yesterday who was reading the same book as I am. I did genuinely wonder whether I should carry on with it and wondered what she thought. But I didn't ask because she's entitled to sit on the Tube and read without some stranger interrupting her to ask her that.

A pp mentioned the London nature of this thread - yes, I agree with that. I was puzzled by the poster who said about the guy calling from the car might be wanting to say you have a lamp out - I thought it was obvious they were shouting at a pedestrian.

Oh no, I've been outed @jemimapyjamas

No, I'm not even especially good looking. I'm overweight and grumpy. No stealth boasting.

I know what you mean OP and YANBU. Have you read The Gift Of Fear? I strongly recommend it. I got into some very unsafe situations because, like some of the women on this thread, my own mother and female members of my family and religious community minimised my experiences around an older man when I was a teenager, to the point they actually invited him into my home and told him where my Saturday job was. He went on to stalk me for almost 20 years.

When I read the Gift of Fear, I realised that our intuition and that “creepy” vibe is something we should never ignore. I’ve only ever regretted ignoring it and never regretted acting upon it. And I only ever ignore it in the first place because of other women minimising my experiences!

The author says that in general strange men only approach you to talk to you because they want to test your boundaries or harm you. He says to never engage. I can hear some of MN freaking out now! The example he gives is a man offering to help you with your shopping in a deserted car park. His argument is that any decent man would realise that the woman in this incidence is in a vulnerable position and so he’d keep his distance so as not to make her feel uncomfortable. Only a man who wants something from her or doesn’t care about making her feel uncomfortable would approach her. The author also says that a lot of woman, instead of giving a firm clear, “No. I’d prefer to do this alone” would be very sweet and polite and either agree to the help or engage in conversation. He says we should always refuse the help and risk being seen as impolite.

Don’t engage with these men, at all. Just ignore. Don’t take your headphones off, don’t put your book down and answer questions, don’t make eye contact.

I suspect you look like you’d be sweet and passive and wouldn’t want to be seen as rude. Perfect ultra confident and assured body language. Creepy men will not approach women that they feel would be intimidating or likely to call them out on their behaviour.

Thanks Eleanor, yes I have read that book. The groceries story was terrifying.

I probably do look approachable. Ignoring people is hard when you're brought up to be amenable and friendly. Especially hard for women who are often socialised to be nice and accomodating.

@EleanorOalike that must be why I don't get creeped on much any more... I'd say it's because I'm hideous but some men will try anyone if they sense a free fuck so it can't be that.
I was raised by a single father who was protective and learned early from my mother that All Men Are Bastards. It shows.
That definitely sounds like a good read and good advice that we should be giving to all girls. There's no need to be polite to someone who is trampling all over your need to be left alone.

if you don't want to chat then that's fine but people aren't to know.

This is bollocks. Any normal person can tell pretty dman quickly after a conversation starts if the person wants to continue it. So, in the coffee shop for example, if the "how's your day?" is met with a polite, but slightly dismissive and short answer, that's probably a sign that the buyer doesn't want to talk. And most people have no problem picking up these signals. Except, weirdly, the only time these basic social cues seem to be completely missed is when it's a man to a woman, usually a younger woman....

@Shoxfordian

I completely know what you mean. It’s a case of having to go against your nature and everything you’ve been brought up to do. Sadly, needs must. The people you choose to have in your life get to know the real you, but the weirdos aren’t entitled to that.

Urgh too annoying. You can tell when someone’s being creepy and it can very quickly flip to aggressive and insulting. Used to get it a lot less so now over 40 such a relief.

A poster that rather stupidly asked if it’s ok if someone is good looking the answer is no. I was bothered and actually sexually harassed by a really good looking guy looked like brad Pitt. But he was weird and creepy and wouldn’t take no for an answer (was on a beach in my twenties) he was Swiss I think. Made me dislike brad Pitt though not his fault I know

You're right Eleanor
It is like unlearning all the nice accomodating ways you were brought up with.

I thought of the gift of fear book around the security guard. My whole body was telling me to get away from him, it was like a red alert in my brain. The only time in these examples that I've felt that but I listened to it. So glad he doesn't work where I do anymore.

The problem is staff are rated on being engaged and friendly. They can't win.

There is a difference between "nice morning, isn't it. Do you want anything else with your sandwich? No, fine, that's sixty quid*, please. Bye, have a nice day"

and trying to find out where you work etc.

*London prices

Shock horror another human speaks to another in real life and not through cyber space...that's what we all used to do before the internet was invented.....

You do know that retail workers are INSTRUCTED to make conversation?
And some people are just 《shock horror》
Friendly.

I'm in London. It's not normal to make eye contact, never mind conversation

Sad but true

It really isn't! I'm in That London too and I often have a lovely chit-chat and sometimes full-on conversation with people at the bus stop/on the train/in local shops etc.

Ah, there you go, OP. Some more "he was just being friendly!" posts. Bet you hadn't considered that, had you? Silly old paranoid you.

loopy When I was 22 I made the mistake of thinking that a man stopping me on a street corner to say 'how are you?' was friendly...by the time he started asking where I lived and did I have a boyfriend I realised he wasn't.

It genuinely isn't friendly to ask someone where they live/work - its intrusive.

it's also sad that a bus driver leaning out to shout that someone is beautiful should be considered a compliment. FFS. I've had genuine compliments which were just that, compliments in passing. But someone getting in my face to deliver them? that's not normal, or pleasant or flattering.

Friendly is have a nice day - creepy is where do you live/work ?