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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was Waitrose being U?

285 replies

Settlethewreckage · 02/04/2019 20:09

Just returned from Waitrose after having been refused a bottle of wine. DH (30) and I (27) wanted to celebrate our wedding anniversary by buying a fancy bottle of wine, so we went to Waitrose and picked one (along with some other stuff). At the till DH gets asked for ID, no problem. Cashier then asks me for mine, which I didn't have on me. So now we can't have this bottle of wine, because he can't confirm my age.

I'm angry. The manager said it made sense to ask us both as we 'look a similar age'. Yet they know DH is 30! To make matters worse, DH is now not able to buy alcohol at that store today and tomorrow because 'they know we are together'.

AIBU to think that this was ridiculous? Yes, I could have gone and fetched my ID from home, but by then I was already fuming, so I left the stuff and went to Sainsbury's.

OP posts:
HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 03/04/2019 10:37

The proxy sale means that a shop cannot sell alcohol to an adult if they believe it is being given to an under age person.

Surely the law is that an underage person cannot buy the alcohol, not that they cannot drink it? This proxy sale stuff makes no sense because all children over 5 can by law drink alcohol at home so these teens are not underage in that regard?

Shouldn't it be the parents with toddlers who are being stopped for a risk of proxy sales? Confused

TheWaiting · 03/04/2019 10:41

So is there no defence? Can a test purchaser take a 9yr old then a cashier be fired for lacking due diligence? And why in the same shop, with the same teenager, am I sometimes refused and other times not?

It all just seems a big fudge. Why aren’t retailers pressing the authorities for clarification on what’s reasonable with regards proxy sales? And surely it’s far less likely to be a proxy sale if he’s stood there with me, helping me pack? If I was minded to buy him booze, I’d tell him to wait in the car.

Evilspiritgin · 03/04/2019 10:44

I think we should just go down the route of using Id when you buy alcohol fully, no Id no alcohol at all, no matter what age you are.

Im under the impression that in some us states that you can’t buy drink at all if you have anybody under 21 with you, Maybe we should start thinking about going down this road, I mean it’s not like there isn’t a big problem with drink on these isles

Evilspiritgin · 03/04/2019 10:46

Fancy complaining about someone doing there job though, it’s a straight offf £90 fine for the member of staff if they are found to have done this

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 03/04/2019 10:50

Im under the impression that in some us states that you can’t buy drink at all if you have anybody under 21 with you, Maybe we should start thinking about going down this road, I mean it’s not like there isn’t a big problem with drink on these isles

Hasn't underage drinking declined significantly in the last decade? I agree there is a problem in some parts relating to the drinking culture in this country but it's not the youth that are responsible.

Having to always show ID wouldn't stop the problem either because the people in this thread being stopped are not under 18? So they are legally able to buy the product in the first place.

TheWaiting · 03/04/2019 10:50

@Evilspiritgin, but my DS wouldn’t have ID as he’s only 15. I’d happily produce mine but my age wasn’t in question.

This proxy concept is ridiculous for two reasons. Firstly, 90% of proxy sales will not have the underage person stood next to them and secondly, it would not be illegal for me to take that bottle of wine home and pour DS a glass. So I’m at a loss as to why it’s a thing. Confused

BarbaraofSevillle · 03/04/2019 10:53

Evil

Please explain how your suggestion works with parents of teens under 18? Whether the DC is in the shop with the parent has no bearing on whether they will consume the alcohol bought by the parent. If the parent is planning to illegally give their DC alcohol, they would be more likely to leave them outside the shop anyway.

Are you saying that parents should never be allowed to buy alcohol in case they give it to their DC?

PhilomenaButterfly · 03/04/2019 10:54

That's crazy. I take my DC shopping every weekend and always buy alcohol. No one's ever refused to sell it to me.

Evilspiritgin · 03/04/2019 11:08

As I was saying as far as I’m aware in some us states you just don’t buy alcohol when kids are with you, you get it when you are shopping alone, obviously though they have more shops that specially sell drink than the UK

LikeDolphinsCanSwim · 03/04/2019 11:10

BarbaraofSeville has summed it up very well. These rules are effectively extending the law to situations that are not illegal, rather than enforcing what is actually illegal. It’s not surprising that people get annoyed about it.

The original intention of challenge 25 was to create a buffer between 17 and 25, to avoid alcohol being inadvertently sold to under-18s. It is a nonsense to keep extending this upwards in case someone who is clearly years older than 17 might just about pass for 25 on a good day in a flattering light. I was 48 last time I was asked, it is ridiculous.

LikeDolphinsCanSwim · 03/04/2019 11:14

Correction to my post above: it’s not the rules causing the problem, but the way they are being interpreted.

elliedea · 03/04/2019 11:15

It's the law 🙄 get over it

LikeDolphinsCanSwim · 03/04/2019 11:20

That’s the point though, it’s not the law

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 03/04/2019 11:20

It's the law 🙄 get over it

It's not the law to prevent grown adults over 18 to buy alcohol. The law is no one under 18 can buy it. Challenge 25 is a store policy to prevent under 18s buying alcohol, it is not the law.

BarbaraofSevillle · 03/04/2019 11:23

Going back to the OP, which law requires ID from a woman who the cashier is happy that 'looks similar in age' to a 30 YO man who has proved his age?

Which law is being broken when a 38 YO woman who would only look under 25 if compared with a load of 24 YOs who have had a very hard life tries to buy alcohol?

Which law is being broken when a parent of a 17 YO wants to buy alcohol for themselves and the 17 YO is in the shop with them?

I'm very interested to know the answer.

TheWaiting · 03/04/2019 11:23

It’s certainly not the law to refuse to sell alcohol to a middle aged woman because she happens to have a child with her when she does the weekly shop! Hmm

LittleChristmasMouse · 03/04/2019 11:25

This is the definition of a Proxy sale

This is when an adult attempts to buy age restricted products on behalf of an underage person

The issue is determining who is doing this. I can understand why a cashier would err on the side of caution rather than risk a fine or getting the sack.

LittleChristmasMouse · 03/04/2019 11:28

Which law is being broken when a 38 YO woman who would only look under 25 if compared with a load of 24 YOs who have had a very hard life tries to buy alcohol?

No law. But company policy is to challenge 25. The company and trading standards test this and if staff haven't followed the challenge 25 policy they face disciplinary action. I can understand why staff are ultra cautious if they are in fear of losing their job.

TheWaiting · 03/04/2019 11:31

So how does a cashier determine this? Is it really true that there’s never been any published guidelines on this? No guide from stores themselves? If they were caught, I’d there no comeback? Are they just sacked and prosecuted? Could they not argue that they reasonably assumed the wine was for the mother and not the 9yr old? Not the 12yr old...

TheWaiting · 03/04/2019 11:33

Could my cashier not argue that they reasonably assumed the £15 bottle of wine that was part of my £200 weekly shop was likely for me? Or would they lose their job simply because I had a young teenager in school uniform with me?

LittleChristmasMouse · 03/04/2019 11:36

TheWaiting

The guidelines are very wooly and put the onus on the cashier. I wouldn't refuse to sell to an adult with a 9 year old child. Though I have refused an 18 rated video game in these circumstances where the child was holding it, talking about playing it etc. The older mum shouted and complained that it was for her and not her son but not worth me risking my job over it.

I've only known one person prosecuted for selling to an under 18. I've known several fined and I've known many get written warnings and some final warnings for not following challenge 25 during test purchases.

In all honesty, why should a cashier on minimum wage risk their job so you can buy a bottle of wine?

LittleChristmasMouse · 03/04/2019 11:39

Could my cashier not argue that they reasonably assumed the £15 bottle of wine that was part of my £200 weekly shop was likely for me?

They could try and argue that. Equally, if the store were cracking down they might not accept that answer and the cashier would get a warning.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 03/04/2019 11:45

Equally, if the store were cracking down they might not accept that answer and the cashier would get a warning.

Why would a cashier get a warning for allowing a parent who was clearly over 25 with a child age 9 to purchase 1 bottle of wine? They are not breaking the stores challenge 25 policy and a £200 shop is clearly not a proxy sale to buy a 9 year old wine. Is there literally no common sense applied, the cashier has done nothing wrong.

If the store can issue a written warning for that wouldn't they be better off with a policy saying over 18's shopping with minors cannot buy alcohol?

LikeDolphinsCanSwim · 03/04/2019 11:48

They could try and argue that. Equally, if the store were cracking down they might not accept that answer and the cashier would get a warning.

There is no law being broken though. TheWaiting can go home and give the wine to her teen. This is not actually illegal.

LittleChristmasMouse · 03/04/2019 11:49

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone

They probably wouldn't get disciplined for it. But they might. That's the problem.

I would sell it under those circumstances. But then I'm stroppy and would argue with the manager if they tried to discipline me.

Probably wouldn't sell a box of wkd in a £200 shop to someone with a 16 year old there though because I would find that harder to defend.