Was Waitrose being U?

[Settlethewreckage]

Just returned from Waitrose after having been refused a bottle of wine. DH (30) and I (27) wanted to celebrate our wedding anniversary by buying a fancy bottle of wine, so we went to Waitrose and picked one (along with some other stuff). At the till DH gets asked for ID, no problem. Cashier then asks me for mine, which I didn't have on me. So now we can't have this bottle of wine, because he can't confirm my age.

I'm angry. The manager said it made sense to ask us both as we 'look a similar age'. Yet they know DH is 30! To make matters worse, DH is now not able to buy alcohol at that store today and tomorrow because 'they know we are together'.

AIBU to think that this was ridiculous? Yes, I could have gone and fetched my ID from home, but by then I was already fuming, so I left the stuff and went to Sainsbury's.

Tbh, the licencing laws are long, complicated and contradictory.

Why not make it simple - want alcohol, no matter your age, have to legally show ID to get it.

Shopping with anyone under 18 - cashier asks 'Is this intended for anyone under 18?' as a mandatory question.
"Yes" no sale
"No" sale.
Puts the onus back on the person who actually intends to supply alcohol to someone under 18 then, and if they do and are discovered, they can have the 20 grand fine and 6 months in prison.

Where have I asked people to risk their job? I want them to refuse me wine when I have my 9yr old with me if they’ll refuse me wine when I have my 15yr old with me. Refuse me every time if ‘you can never be sure’. If I’m irresponsible enough to give it to DS1, I’m irresponsible enough to give it to DS2. Or at least refuse me every bloody Friday night when I’m with my 15yr old rather than it being pot luck.

Brilliantidiot, a very sensible solution. Why should the cashier be blamed for the idiocy of the adult buying alcohol for a child.

Where have I asked people to risk their job?

By asking cashiers to refuse to sell alcohol to anyone accompanied by a child. That isn't the law. The law is about proxy sales. If the cashier doesn't believe it's a proxy sale then they can proceed.

You calling for all cashiers to stage a protest by refusing to serve anyone with a child be they teen, toddler or baby will get cashiers into trouble.

It's not their fight. If you have a problem with the law or store policy then why don't you challenge it?

If i worked on a checkout and was at risk for being fined I wouldn't risk it. It's annoying but not the cashiers fault.

So if the law is about proxy sales then there needs to be clear training on what could indicate a proxy sale. So why isn’t there such training? This is my problem. Because I can’t imagine that any such training tells cashiers that one of the red flags is simply a child’s age. And if this was a very clearly defined red flag pointed out at regular mandatory training then I wouldn’t be allowed to purchase wine 2/3 of the time.
My problem isn’t cashiers adhering to the law. My problem is how they’re expected to interpret that law. Do you have a poster in the staff room with, say, 4 red flags? Are any of them simply, age? There’s no point going around in circles with this but I’d like to understand why I’m flagging up because if it’s just because he’s 15, then that’s an inaccurate interpretation of the law.

If I’m irresponsible enough to give it to DS1, I’m irresponsible enough to give it to DS2.

Again, that is not true for most people. People on here will happily give their 16/17 year old a drink but would never allow their 11 year old a drink.

Shopping with anyone under 18 - cashier asks 'Is this intended for anyone under 18?' as a mandatory question.
"Yes" no sale
"No" sale.

Even if it was blatantly for someone underage?

AJPTaylor Proof of age for buying a TROWEL?! Am I missing something here?

There is no training which is the same for every company. It was not a flag in my store.

You could also say the same about checking age. A 25 year old may be asked in one store and not the other.

Clearly not in my supermarket either otherwise I’d be refused every time.

So if the law is about proxy sales then there needs to be clear training on what could indicate a proxy sale.

There is training on the types of things to look out for. But funnily enough not all people breaking the law follow a kind of checklist.

What does a shoplifter look like or a burglar or a murderer?

You can look out for certain things - so if you see a teen stop an older person and ask them to buy something, well that's obvious.

But it won't always be like that.

We've started asking for ID to buy energy drinks. Served a woman in her 40s with her son who was about 10. Trolley load of shopping including some red bull. No reason at all to suspect a proxy sale. Just finishing the sale and the woman gives the red bull to the child. I stopped the payment and called my manager to deal with it. What red flag should I have seen there?

But your post only proves the point that it’s a ridiculous law that doesn’t work.

I think I’m being stopped because I have a 15yr old boy who could maybe pass for 16. He is wearing school uniform so there’s no attempt to hide the fact he’s underage. I think, and I will maybe test this in 2yrs, that I’ll be stopped far less with a 15yr old DD. I cannot think of any other reason for us meeting/suggesting any red flags other than the fact he’s a 15yr old boy. I’m trying to understand why I have repeatedly been refused.

Oh and I have asked each time only to be told the cashier does not need to disclose anything only to feel there’s a chance the alcohol is for DS. I’ve also asked once when I wasn’t refused and the perplexed cashier just shrugged.

The problem with the retail policy is that it is not law. Like data protection, it is something that has been overinterpreted and people do not receive adequate or accurate training.

The retailers really need to look at this again. It's not just alcohol, there was also that case of the guy who was refused paracetamol for his 19 year old daughter.

And, if you have under 18s on a till, PLEASE have a sign up that says they are 17, so if I have an age restricted item I can go to a different till. AND don't have under 18s on the cigarette counter.

We've started asking for ID to buy energy drinks. Served a woman in her 40s with her son who was about 10. Trolley load of shopping including some red bull. No reason at all to suspect a proxy sale. Just finishing the sale and the woman gives the red bull to the child. I stopped the payment and called my manager to deal with it. What red flag should I have seen there

That is not law yet, it was being consulted on last year. It isn't yet in force. Might be retailer policy but that's not the same.

People will have to start going on their own into supermarkets to shop because someone will always assume that because they are with/talking to someone they are buying the age restricted item for the other person. And don't try to buy a bottle of wine if you have a baby with you. Clearly, you are buying for the baby

It's all very odd because you can buy anything you like via online shopping and the delivery drivers don't refuse to give it to you if they see a child in the house.

I’ve also asked once when I wasn’t refused and the perplexed cashier just shrugged.

Because it's a judgement call by the member of staff.

Maybe if you've been 'repeatedly refused' stop taking him?

@TheWaiting

It could be that the particular store you use has failed a few test purchases (by mystery shoppers), or more specifically, the cashiers that refuse have failed those test purchases. Therefore they're being overly cautious.
The store may have even failed a licensing test purchase, and certain members of staff just aren't confident enough in making the judgement call, so again are over cautious.
I personally, failed a lottery test purchase, done either by my company or the national lottery itself, I wasn't told which. Just that I'd failed, not even told which customer. And I'm quite confident in age guessing - because that's what it is isn't it, a guess. I got a formal discipline and my manager's 'extra training' for me was "Unless they're 90, ID them"
Helpful!

Shopping with anyone under 18 - cashier asks 'Is this intended for anyone under 18?' as a mandatory question.
"Yes" no sale
"No" sale.

Even if it was blatantly for someone underage?

What makes it blatant though? That's the whole point isn't it? That what's blatant to one person isn't to another and there's room for interpretation, on a law, the breaking of which is life changing for the person selling it.
The alternative is the jumbled mess we have now, or blanket refusal of sales to anyone accompanied by someone under 18.
Why shouldn't the person actually doing the buying take the hit? By answering the question, they're accepting the responsibility and concequences.

That is not law yet

It isn't law but it's company policy so I could have been disciplined for allowing a proxy sale of an energy drink. Luckily they gave it to the child, in front of me, before I finished the transaction so the manager dealt with it.

It's a minefield.

Unfortunately that is the way it works

I remember once trying to buy some liquor chocolates as a gift - was asked for ID, said I didn't have any (I think I was mid 30s), woman behind the counter asked a colleague what she should do - colleague said that because she had asked that was it, there was nothing they could do (she did point out that she wouldn't have asked but as soon as the question takes place they are scuppered)

If I saw an adult and a teenager exchange money outside the shop or saw the teenager choosing the alcohol in the alcohol aisle or it just didn't seem quite right then I'd have to ask for ID. DS has chosen a bottle of wine before when I've been buying it as a gift or to take to dinner (I don't drink it). Good thing he wasn't seen then!

Proof of age for buying a TROWEL?! Am I missing something here

I've also been asked for proof of age for buying a trowel. It falls in to the same category as knives etc. I was in my late 30s and working on the construction site opposite the shop I was trying to buy it from and dressed in full protective gear, so not the sort of place you would generally find children working on anyway.

Again, it's a judgement call and nobody is buying alcohol for a 5 year old. HOWEVER, people did try to purchase 12/15/18 DVDs and were refused. My 12 year old was caught out trying to buy a 12 DVD, he's 12, he doesn't carry ID. Luckily the assistant manning the self serve had no issue with me putting it though with my shopping.

Is it just if you look under 12/15/18 for DVDs, or is there a challenge thing? DS could easily look under 12 now, but is he likely to need ID to buy a 12 DVD at 15?

What makes it blatant though?

Child - Can you buy me this cider mum, here is the money?
Mum walks to checkout
Cashier - Is this intended for anyone under 18?
Mum - No
Cashier then either has to sell the alcohol or call the customer a liar.

DS has chosen a bottle of wine before when I've been buying it as a gift or to take to dinner (I don't drink it). Good thing he wasn't seen then!

I would have asked for ID for that.

Is it just if you look under 12/15/18 for DVDs, or is there a challenge thing? DS could easily look under 12 now, but is he likely to need ID to buy a 12 DVD at 15?

All age restricted products fall under challenge 25. Lottery is 16 and falls under it. The difference between someone who looks 12 and someone who looks 15 is small.

You can get cards called Prove It cards (or Young Scot in Scotland).

Yes, he would need ID to buy any age restricted product.

I have been IDed for a 12 dvd at 15. And 18.

Does he have facial hair? When I shaved it I practically got asked where my mummy was With it DVDs weren't usually an issue.

Even now I get IDed for energy drinks which is annoying - but I always carry my ID because I know it's likely to happen, even if there's one Energy Drink () amongst £25 of chicken, veg, rice etc rather than me buying 8 energy drinks, which would suggest I'm buying for multiple people.

Oddly, I go shopping with my best friend who is only three years older (24) than me (21) who never gets IDed