Was Waitrose being U?

[Settlethewreckage]

Just returned from Waitrose after having been refused a bottle of wine. DH (30) and I (27) wanted to celebrate our wedding anniversary by buying a fancy bottle of wine, so we went to Waitrose and picked one (along with some other stuff). At the till DH gets asked for ID, no problem. Cashier then asks me for mine, which I didn't have on me. So now we can't have this bottle of wine, because he can't confirm my age.

I'm angry. The manager said it made sense to ask us both as we 'look a similar age'. Yet they know DH is 30! To make matters worse, DH is now not able to buy alcohol at that store today and tomorrow because 'they know we are together'.

AIBU to think that this was ridiculous? Yes, I could have gone and fetched my ID from home, but by then I was already fuming, so I left the stuff and went to Sainsbury's.

@OohYeBelter47 we're supposed to use our judgment to decide wether it's a proxy sale or just someone shopping with their child.

If someone came to my till with a young child and got a bottle of wine in their weekly food shop then no problem. If I saw an adult and a teenager exchange money outside the shop or saw the teenager choosing the alcohol in the alcohol aisle or it just didn't seem quite right then I'd have to ask for ID.

@LikeDolphinsCanSwim If the delivery driver arrived and the person who answered the door looked under 18, or their parents ordered the shop but weren't there to accept the shop so their child answered and the shop had age restricted items in then they'd have to bring the whole shop back to store and redeliver when the person has ID or the adult is home.

They wouldn't check your house to look for children.

@TheWaiting I wouldn't have refused to serve with you alcohol if you were doing a big shop and it contained alcohol. It might be that he looks older than 15 but under 25 so they ID him too.

It doesn't sound like there's anything to make it look like you're buying the alcohol for him but some staff may be being extra cautious. We have till prompts when scanning alcohol through the till and if found to have cleared the prompt but not acted accordingly we can get in big trouble. We also have regular mystery shoppers which include a parent with their child scenario so they're just being careful.

I would definitely have left without making any purchases and not go back for a while

But literally anyone could have someone younger than 18 at home that they're taking alcohol to. It doesn't make any difference if they're at the shop with them at the time. Makes no sense! The whole point is that the person buying it is over 18, and then the onus is on them to drink responsibly/not drink drive/not give it to a minor.

I understand the ID'ing if you look younger, though sometimes I think the cashier is just being a bit petty or maybe trying to liven up a boring job, honestly, a 39 yo might look younger but not 25, anyway what I don't understand is when they refuse to sell you wine if you are there with a teenager.

I don't need their nannying to know what I can or cannot give my children. It's just telling me I cannot be trusted with them and that's utter bollocks.

Most cashiers I know hate IDing as you never know what reaction you'll get. Most people are fine, though.

I definitely wouldn't do it to liven up a boring job. I like boring transactions that go smoothly and straight through. So do customers

I understand the ID'ing if you look younger, though sometimes I think the cashier is just being a bit petty or maybe trying to liven up a boring job, honestly, a 39 yo might look younger but not 25, anyway what I don't understand is when they refuse to sell you wine if you are there with a teenager.
Oh yeah, nothing livens your day more and lifts your spirits than being given a shitty attitude by customers for following policies and laws that to break can cost you your job, money you don't have or ultimately, your freedom, and that you have no say in whatsoever. Literally highlight of the day for most shop assistants I'd say 🤨🙄 do agree on the shopping with teen things, but then the people making these policies don't hold staff in any more regard than customers do, so you're not allowed to demonstrate common sense to override a policy in some places. Well of course unless it benefits them and they can throw you under the bus.

I don't need their nannying to know what I can or cannot give my children. It's just telling me I cannot be trusted with them and that's utter bollocks.

I don't give a monkeys what you give your children to be quite honest. I don't care about anyone's drinking habits that's not directly linked to me. The law says I need to stick to some rules to do a job, imo they're overkill in some areas, but it's not my call. I don't make the rules but I do have to face the concequences should I break them. That's the only reason that most people selling alcohol do what they do.

I don't understand why posters are judging the check out staff. It is a rule that their employers have imposed and carries stiff penalties if they fail to follow them.

Does no one else have rules at work that they disagree with but have to follow? I think it's wrong of anyone to pressure an employee into breaking rules that could lead to them losing their job.

They dont ask for I.d when do home deliveries

They do

I suppose cashiers can feed back to their employers what the customers think.

Otherwise how will management know there is customer unhappiness with the policy and its implementation? It's not like there is a manager by every till.

I had this recently with a friend when we were in ASDA with our kids 3-10.

My understanding has always been as long as the purchasing adult has ID then the sale can go through. Wtf do they expect parents with teens to do on the weekly shop?

I suppose cashiers can feed back to their employers what the customers think.

Otherwise how will management know there is customer unhappiness with the policy and its implementation? It's not like there is a manager by every till.

Staff do but the only way changes will happen is if customers complain - and not to store staff but officially to head office.

FlopsyMopsyRabbit thanks for answering TheWaiting's question, it was the one I wanted to ask as well.

Do teenagers have ID though? Does this mean that if I pop to the supermarket and buy a bottle of wine with my teen in tow s/he has to take their passport with them just in case?

What if s/he doesn't have a passport? What other ID's are available to a teen which a supermarket would accept?

I guess the teenager should just wait outside.

My DS is 24 and regularly buys multipacks of beer at Tesco. So what should happen? Should he be asked for ID and then be allowed to buy it anyway as he is over 18?

@LittleChristmasmouse I did complain to head office in the end. I know that there's not much shop assistants can do, but the policy is doesn't do what it's supposed to do and imho needs to be revised. I did eventually have a nice bottle of wine and good anniversary. Thanks everyone who wished me a good day

The rules for cashiers are especially annoying as there is technically nothing illegal about selling alcohol to an adult who then passes it on to a minor - the adult breaks the law, not the shop.

The problem is mystery shoppers looking to catch people out, alcohol licensing laws that say if kids are getting their hands on alcohol via their parents, it's the shop that loses its license, and my favourite (that I learned about in challenge 25 training) 'if someone in the queue thinks someone looks underage and we don't challenge them it reflects badly on us'.

Great, ruin someone's day because Doris the busybody can't tell the difference between 18 and 35 year olds.

The whole situation is ridiculous. I was refused in my 30s because they were happy I was over 18 and no law was being broken but I couldn't prove I was over 25 because I had left my driving licence in another bag.

Parents of teens are being refused alcohol with their normal shopping because they 'might' give alcohol to the teenager, despite it being legal to give anyone over 5 years old alcohol in private homes.

I've seen comments about people being refused service because the teen has helped their parent scan the shopping or carry heavy bags.

People are suggesting leaving the teens outside if they are buying alcohol, but how does the presence or not of said teen relate in any way to whether or not the alcohol is for them.

It would seem more likely that if you are going to illegally purchase alcohol for an under 18, that you would leave them outside, so following the flawed logic applied by the retailers, the people who are most likely to be breaking the law are those people in their 30/40/50s who are buying alcohol and do not have a teen with them, as a significant percentage of people in those age groups are parents of teens, so if they are not with them, they must be doing it for the purposes of illegal alcohol purchase.

People keep going on about 'the poor shop assistant losing their job or being fined thousands' but seeing as most of the examples have been about people who have not been breaking any law whatsoever, eg people well over 18 buying alcohol for themselves or people who have their offspring with them, but have not given any indication that the alcohol is for a person under 18, no-one is going to apply a fine in these circumstances because no law is being broken.

The test purchases are very obviously under 25, and often under 18. They do not send middle aged parents with 15 YOs to buy a weekly shop including a bottle of wine for the parents to try and catch out the retailer, because this is not where illegal alcohol sales are happening. It's groups of teens where one may pass for 18+ trying to buy for people under 18 so that is what the test purchasers are all about.

I used to look really young for my age, and it was a complete pain to get served up until my 40s. I don’t get asked anymore, although a Morrisons did ask me for ID a couple of years ago and I was delighted! I thought it was an excellent sales policy.

I work in a bar and if we serve anyone who is underage we can get fined up to 5000, usually a £90 fixed penalty but either way not worth the risk just so someone else can have a drink. Just take your ID out.

Just take your ID out.

But this thread shows that just taking your ID out doesn't work. Many teens who are shopping with their parents don't have ID, unless they are expected to take their passport with them. Plus many adults over 30 are being asked for ID despite being 12 + years over the legal age so at what age can you stop taking your ID out?

And even if the under 18 teen has ID, all it proves is that they are under 18, so cannot legally buy alcohol, so does this mean that parents of teens are never able to buy alcohol for themselves in case they give it to their teen DC, which isn't illegal at home anyway.

So what are the general guidelines given to staff re teenage children?
Flopsy, you say maybe my teen looks slightly older than 15. Well, I’d def say he looks 15-17 so yes, absolutely he doesn’t look old enough to be buying alcohol. Plus he’s clearly wearing school sports kit.

But I’m still not understanding why I’ve been refused wine as part of a big weekly shop just because he’s with me. And why not every week? I’m trying to understand what prompts them to think the wine is for him. Are some staff just always refusing customers with a teen? Would I be stopped as frequently with teenage DD? Honestly?

Last question. Would staff really be prosecuted for selling a bottle of wine as part of a £200 shop to a 50yr old woman simply because she has a teenage boy with her? Is it not about making a reasonable assumption? I get the think 25 for someone actually buying booze but could a cashier not argue that the person purchasing was clearly of age and doing a weekly shop that included 1 x £15 bottle of wine? And if they’re not allowed to exercise judgement, why am I not stopped every week? At what age are they told to act for ID? 10? 14? 18?

Again, it’s not the think 25 thing I have an issue with it’s the parent shopping with their child. I’m just not understanding if I’m being told that if it’s a mystery shopper checking up on the store, could they prosecute a cashier for selling wine to a mother with a 10yr old with them? Could the cashier not argue that they thought it highly unlikely that the mother would be giving said 10yr old wine or would they still lose their job?

The proxy sale means that a shop cannot sell alcohol to an adult if they believe it is being given to an under age person.

The problem here is how does the cashier defend themselves against this? It's obvious if you hear it being discussed or see money changing hands or if it's a group of friends and only 1 has ID buying a case of budweiser or something.

Some stores crack down hard on staff, particularly if they've failed a test purchase, and so staff become hyper vigilant and refuse to sell to any adult with a teen.

I think it would be much easier if there were a blanket rule ie ID shown with every purchase. Then everyone knows the rules.

Proxy sales are a bit odd because, as is said on here, who knows where the stuff is going once it leaves the shop, but as long as that is the law shops have to enforce it.