My mum lives with me but acts like a guest

[lookybooky]

My father passed away 4 years ago and my mum (early 60's) was so distraught that I invited her to move in with my family. We didn't have a spare room so she gave us £80k to build an extension (she has the 2 rooms that we built). At the time she said it was all she could spare but that was fine as it was enough for the 2 storey extension which includes a bathroom and kitchenette. She also pays £150 p/m towards bills. She doesn't babysit or do any housework or gardening but she was a bit miserable for the first year so I didn't expect any help. But we're in year 4 now and all she does is watch TV and go shopping or meet friends. Again, I could probably deal with that but I've just found out that she gave my brother almost exactly the same amount of money (only £10k less) at the same time as she gave me. AIBU that she's living like a guest in my home while he gets to do whatever he wants with the money (he's invested it into property I believe)? I've pointed out that I feel it's unfair but she said it's her own business and if I'm unhappy, I should return the £80k and she'll get a retirement flat. She won't move in with my bro as she hates his wife!

£80,000 is fuck all to put up with 20 years of that shit.

It's that resentment and frustration at what I perceive as low contribution to household (income and just engaging on a positive level) that's starting to build up. I'd love to be able to forget about DB's money, stop shouting hypocrite in my head when she makes parenting judgements and just be happy to have her with us. I really would as that'd be perfect and how I imagined life would be. But now DH is starting to get frustrated too and I don't want a huge family meltdown.

So calculate it.

Your DM lives in the extension. How many people live in your house? You, your DH and how many children? Obviously your children's costs are your costs not your mother's.

Your mother has two rooms, how many do you have? There is the garden but that's not really your mother's cost since it was there before she moved in.
Based on these costs, work out what you think a fair share of the bills should be and discuss it properly with her, showing her the bills. You can't expect her to contribute to your mortgage repayments since that's an expense you would have anyway. If you're in a bad place financially you might want to let her know.

It's difficult to understand why you think she's a hypocrite for giving your DB money too. If you have two children can you see that if you gave one a substantial payment you would want to give the other something too? As well as the payment for the extension, more than she gave your DB, she's also paying £150 a month to you as a contribution to bills. If your DH is getting frustrated is it solely with her or because you keep complaining? Either way it's time to get the calculator out and have a civil discussion.

With parenting I agree she needs to step back. "Mum, thanks for the advice and I'll take it on board, but these are our children and we raise them our way. I'd like you to respect that."

You might also ask if there's anything she's finding frustrating or disappointing, and see if you can all move forward.

It's not two things, it's three.

Your mother had money which she used to buy an extension to your house, where she could live. That's one thing.
She has a son, she gave him money. That's the second thing.
She has a daughter, she did not give her money. That's the third thing.

You, and she, confuse the issue by assuming that the money she put into your house was a gift on the same terms as the money she gave to your brother. It wasn't. It was her investment in somewhere to live, close to family. She has the benefit of living close to you rather than alone. One day, that will be repaid when she dies and you have access to that extension. It's a long term investment. It is not a gift from your mother.

By not being clear about this at the start, you and your mother have drifted into a position which is unfair to you. You are resentful, she is petulant when you express resentment.

The only winner here seems to be your brother. I have a brother. He gets everything when my father dies, as my late mother intended. Parents can be very unpleasant.

This sounds like what was a potentially good idea gone horribly wrong. If your mother has sold her own home to fund this or has used her only assets in some other way she is now as trapped as you.

I can see how when this arrangement was first made your mother could have seen the division of money as dividing yours and your brother's eventual inheritances with a bit more for you to finance her new living arrangement.

You seem to have been happy with the £80k to facilitate the extension to your house until you learnt that your brother was getting £70k.

Whatever the legal position is regarding whether the money is a gift, the reality is that your mother can't really move on without some of it back. Unfortunately I think that the only way forward would be for both you and your brother to remortgage an give her say £50k each back to buy a flat. Alternatively give her £20k each back so she can rent and have some security into old age.

You and your mother have both made a big mistake. She must now be feeling very unwelcome in the annex she has funded. As you both made the mistake neither you or your mother should take the whole hit. Of course it was also unwise of her to part with the other money to your brother while she might have still needed it.

The important thing is for you all to get out of an impossible situation with relationships as intact as possible. I wouldn't be arguing about how much she pays towards keep or how much help/babysitting would make the situation a bit more tenable. I would try to find a solution, which inevitably will sting a bit financially, which as fairly to you all as possible releases both you and your mother from an impossible situation.

It's difficult to understand why you think she's a hypocrite for giving your DB money too.

I think the hypocracy bit is her giving "advice" on parenting, when she was a bloody awful parent to the OP?

Yes, the hypocrite was in regard to her parenting "advice". She's quite tactless so just blurts out her views with lots of judgement added in.

Thank you all for your comments. Its been so helpful reading about your similar scenarios, suggested next steps etc. Next step will probably be a 3 way conversation when we're all calm.

The DM will get her state pension at 67 (guess) and possibly has income from her DH's pensions. She might have a private pension of her own. And I wouldn't have thought she would give all her money away when we all have care home costs looming at some point in the future. There isn't even a guarantee that her adult DCs will be around to care for her then as it is v far in the future.
So I would check what the finances are and, if she actually has no savings now (who gives all their money away when they are 60??) speak to DB about funding her latter years unless you are happy to be her carer then. It's nice to have someone 'take care' of the mundane stuff in life, repairs, garden, lifts etc but at early 60s it is v cheeky.

No doctor

Her mother ^bought herself 80 grand's worth of living space which she has parked for free on OP's property. She has benefitted from garden space, use of OP's* kitchen (and probably the house space if she is turning up the heating when everyone else is out), free "taxi service" for shopping and appointments, low "rent" and utilities bills etc and company when she fancies it, privacy when she doesn't.

In return for this she has continually left the kitchen in a mess, doesn't do any garden maintenance but enjoys use of the space, complied about OP's parenting style, only reluctantly help OP" out with the children - her OWN grandchildren in emergencies, come and gone in OP's* home as she pleases and repeatedly held the threat of taking 'her| money back whenever there has been a dispute.

She sounds a cow. Get her out OP - this will cause trouble between you and your DH, and you and your DCs, (I can practically promise this will happen - my parents were in a similar situation when I was young, and my Evil Grandmother operated a "divide and conquer" policy, playing one off against another) and as others have warned, will get worse instead of better as she gets older and less able.

Get her out now, while you still have your mental health!

If the money is legally yours, then let her whistle for what is "owed" - why should you have to move house and uproot your children if you are happy where you are, when she is the one causing problems?

If you are legally (not ethically) obliged to pay her something, then get a loan, increase your mortgage, sell your soul to Lucifer - but get out of this situation asap.

She is in a very powerful position, but only because you are allowing it. You hold the cards in this situation, but she isn't letting you see that. She's bluffing.

Honestly OP - even if she seems to agree to pay more/ keep her nose out of your business/ clean up after herself/etc - I would do something now because otherwise you WILL end up as her carer, she will become nastier and nastier (people always become more themselves as they age, when social niceties matter less to them) and you and your family will have dreadful lives.

Born in 1959, state retirement is 66 (not hugely different). She also gave her money away (well before aged 60) or needing physical care, so won't affect her in terms of deprivation assets/residential care other than, instead of self funding with choice, she'll likely be reliant on public funding if/when she requires residential care- a long way off.

Those saying she gave OP £80k are missing the point that she didn't give them a cash gift, it was to build two rooms for herself, no benefit to OP who probably didn't want nor need those extra rooms in her house other than to accommodate mother. Not all extensions add significant value.
OP'll have lost land from her garden to do extension and their privacy. That's quite a high cost for someone who is turning out to be a taker, mean with it too.

And a building doesn't pay increased rent or bills. £150/ month won't cover Mother's fair share of bills which have been listed or even touch what it'd cost to live in one bed flat of her own, so she is piggy backing off of OP. Fine whilst mother was grieving and adjusting. But the whole thing needs renegotiating now with ground rules, so that it is tenable to continue with Mother staying. I'm glad that OP DH intends to sit down with Mother.

I think a break with mother staying with her son, for a while might help. Or at least she asks him and gets a No, so realises she could be more grateful to OP. I say that as someone who fully anticipates either of my parents may want to move in with me when they need help. They're 75-80s and perfectly independent but they always join in and offer help where they can. That's a very different more giving & respectful relationship, how it should work.

Well said Bedhmpton.

Tbh I can't see how this could work long term. Even if the financial aspect was sorted out, OP's mum is not going to have a personality change and there is always going to be friction. It just isn't worth it. I'm afraid if I were OP I would be looking for ways to end this arrangement, as it is only going to worse and not better. People don't say "Oh I hadn't realised it was unreasonable of me to expect chauffeuring around while refusing to help out with my grandchildren." They don't see it your way, they see it their own way and only that!

My MIL wanted an annexe put on the house that she and my DH own 50/50, and it had to have no separate lockable entrance as MIL had no intention of paying council tax. So she would have been coming into our part of the house (as a minimum) every time she went out/came back. She couldn't see why we objected to that: "But I wouldn't be a nuisance..." YES YOU BLOODY WOULD. They only see their behaviour how they want to see it, and they want to believe they are in the right and being a good person, because it's not nice to face up to the reality that you are actually being selfish/inconsiderate/mean whatever.

It will only get worse OP, it's best to separate now before it gets much worse and your family is negatively affected beyond repair.

I agree with previous 2 posters Schadenfreud and Bedhampton, but I'd be leaning towards Schadenfreuds advice. Since DM is begrudging to help out and refusing employment and public transport - she appears very entitled. She charged you almost 100% interest on your deposit loan for your family home - I assume she was in her 50s then.
Could you sit down with your brother and have a conversation? Tell him it is not working out. Has he any ideas? I'd imagine not, but I would put some of the responsibility back to him.
I'd want to enjoy my home with my DH and DC. I'd be putting them first, and yourself.

@Tavannach

Good advice except it's obviously wrong that just because the mortgage payment was there before OP's mum moved in she shouldn't contribute. If she's using the shared space she should contribute to it.

But if OP hadn't got the mortgage, there wouldn't have been any land to put the annexe on, ALLMY.

I think how OP feels about her future relationship with her DM really determines the way forward, tbh.

If OP is prepared to risk irrevocable breakdown in that relationship if DM doesn't agree to pay more, to stop meddling in parenting and to keep to her own part of the house, it would be easy to set ground rules and then ask DM to leave if DM doesn't like them. I'd do it, and I'd let her whistle for her £80k, too.

But if the OP wants to keep that relationship going, then any changes have to be made by consent and negotiation. This is going to be difficult if DM's response to that is to say "Give me my money back and I'll leave".

I wouldn't want to be in OP's shoes for all the tea in China.

it's obviously wrong that just because the mortgage payment was there before OP's mum moved in she shouldn't contribute. If she's using the shared space she should contribute to it.

Excellent point, socks

OP has been well and truly stitched up by her mother

hearhere in a nutshell!

Someone upthread suggested that the dm puts her name down for sheltered accommodation. Surely she would not be entitled to this if her assets had been sunk into the OP's home? Otherwise everyone would do it!

Multi-generational living sounds great in theory - but it does depend on the personalities. Had my parents lived I would have been all for it: they were helpful and generous. The pil? Hell no!! After two weeks mil would have spread herself out in the main part of the house and we'd have been in the annexe...

Neighbours made an annexe for the grandma (who seems to have contributed to the large house seemingly beyond the means of the neighbours...) but after a honeymoon period the grandma developed dementia and refused to live in the annexe. She then believed her son was her dh and was hammering on their bedroom door and demanding to get into bed with her son. She was carted off to a nursing home pretty quickly.

I agree with burritofan. You've increased your equity - that was an investment. You invited her to live with you - she accepted, but I guess on her terms - in a granny flat. You say she doesn't use your area much, but comes over to chat. That sounds lovely - something your brother doesn't have. Also, she does breakfast for the kids - that is helping and she pays 150 per month for expenses, which seems very fair. She is in her retirement years - help her enjoy it. It seems like she tries to do the right thing, by giving your brother the same amount. Also, she might like to be more involved. There is a fine line between intruding - maybe just ask her over for dinner some time. I guess maybe your sorry you invited her in - or maybe you should have said. You can live here until you feel better, but I won't take money, because I don't want it to be permanent. Then she might have split the money between you and her brother.

Can your partner become such an arse that she no longer wants to live with you guys either like your brother? Might be the way forwards ;)

Could she live in your brothers flat? I think I would suggest that if she threatens you with wanting the money back.

Seriously I would remortgage again .....or sell the house to give her the money back....
Its not working -
its not likely to work - the situation will get worse - unfortunately she is likely to need more care in the future.... and I bet your DB will do F all

I would suggest you and your DH sit and work out a plan of where you want to be, and how to live ....what about his parents ......

I think you're right the money u bro got was to so whatever with Jere u never got a say into it i would be pistoff to and u have childcare a year alone its over 2000 + then everything else add it all up then u mite not be judgemental or say its right.

Also, having an apartment - means upkeep - sometimes dodgy tenants and clean up of same, same thing with his property as yours - it might devalue or not. It's not like he got off onto some wonderful investment opportunity - it might work out - it might not. She is keeping her area clean. She is doing breakfast and she is paying - maybe you want her to pay more?
GuineaPiglet - she actually thought it added 90k to value of her home.

My god she sounds horrible.

Pros:
She gives your kids breakfast
She will pick them up if absolutely no alternative
Your house has an extension

Cons:
She looks set to live with you for decades
She expects you to look after her when her health deteriorates
She treats you and your brother differently
She's critical of your parenting
She uses the kitchen but won't clean it
She whacks on the heating all day but only contributes £150
She uses her £80k as a stick to beat you with while she's the only one who actually benefits from it.

She sounds such hard work. I think she does need to go and stay with your brother for a bit, to give you a bit of space.

I agree with OffToBedhampton and SchadenfreudePersonified.

Long term this set-up is untenable.