Second Referendum

[SovietKitsch]

Leave or remain, I think it’s about time this idea was taken seriously. See Petition below:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235138?fbclid=IwAR3XN95WOshtsO9kSWQGI5VyDL4GRG2EakaADg378AazbBs6FipEN6Ah1Ow

It's shameful because remainers in the commons were shell shocked for 2 years b, trying to wriggle out of it. .. imagine if two year's had been spent in constructive cross party talks!!

We would have clear slick plan but most of parliament seem to have more empathy with Donald tusk instead of man/woman on streets of UK!!!

I’d have agreed with you until last week. Now I wouldn’t be totally surprised if a 2nd referendum is the only thing that gets a majority on Monday’s second round of indicative votes.*
I agree but is there time?

Bluntness, was it you a little while ago saying there was no way we'd crash out with no deal? Are you still as confident, I am increasingly nervous and it would be good to be reassured.

And the ECC was born in 75?

Britain joined the EEC in 1975. There was never a peoples vote to join the EU.

The EU and the EEC are totally different things?

I think this is the point where I disengage. If you are prepared to discuss and debate the difference between the EU and the EEC while Tommy Robinson is sprouting vile in front of parliament. When we have speakers talking about "traitors" and stoking up violence then we really have different priorities.

If you can look at that march and feel proud to be part of that movement good luck to you.

I did last Saturday. However many people talking, laughing and marching, that made me feel proud. When you look at Tommy and his mates are they your people?

They will know the difference between the EU and the EEC and they probably want to bomb them both.

The EU didn't come into force until 1993. Nobody was given the choice whether to join or not. Except MP's - who voted for us, without consultation.

imagine if two year's had been spent in constructive cross party talks!!

I agree.

Yes, so pre 75 we the UK were not joined the EU in anyway re business or anything else.

Everything started on this road in 75?

Windowsareforcheaters

From "Facts" to attacking posters. That was quick.

They should never have revoked article 50 without a proper plan in place

True, Crobyn helped with that process.

Problem with a second ref is that Remain will have to spell out exactly what the EU offers as we will not be thorn in the side any more so it will have to be honest, it will also require a lot of the UK electorate to realise they are not dyed in the wool lefties old school socialists.

Just revoking and dealing with it is a very dangerous ill informed precedent

The difference between the common market as was and the EU is not semantics.

The lack of a referendum in 1992 on Maastricht is what started the calls for a referendum because it changed everything.

It's confusing, several people have ranted at me that the EU is the reason their immigrant parents came here in the early 60s...

It’s a fuck up caused entirely by the self serving nature of politicians. Wouldn’t it be great if in the next election no one turned out to vote. I think that would send the strongest ever message to the powers that be.

@BoneyBackJefferson

From "Facts" to attacking posters. That was quick

The EU is an evolution of the EEC. The U.K. is different than it was 50 years ago in terms of legislation and details it is still in essence the same body.

I have answered your point, so now instead of snarking are you going to tell me how it feels to be on the same side as Tommy Robinson. Personally there is no bus big enough for me to get on it with him.

The difference between the common market as was and the EU is not semantics.

Differences that were negotiated by elected U.K. governments. Differences that were voted on by democratically elected U.K. parliaments. Differences that were publicised, debated and voted upon.

Windowsareforcheaters

I have answered your point, so now instead of snarking are you going to tell me how it feels to be on the same side as Tommy Robinson.

How about you still to facts instead of spouting rubbish.

If you has argued that the EC/EEC became the EU then that would be a fact, but you didn't.

As for the Tommy Robinson reference, I will ask you this

How does it feel to have made a point so weak and so easily disproved that you feel the need to attack another poster?

Think this thread has nicely demonstrated why another referendum would be pure hell- the venom from people, the snarling put downs!

Differences that were negotiated by elected U.K. governments. Differences that were voted on by democratically elected U.K. parliaments.

Differences that multiple governments promised a referendum on, lets not whitewash history and pretend that any of this closer union was common knowledge among the wider electorate. The argument that Blair could have used EU law to stall immigration from eastern europe is now used as a gotcha against leavers, if anyone had poked thier head above the parapet at that time would have been shouted down a la Gordon Brown, as I said earlier it will require a lot of dyed in the wool lefties to accept how big business neoliberal they are.

There has been a lot of revisionism these past 2 years from both sides, its a mess

Window if your comparing the changes in the EU in 40 years to the changes to the UK and trying to put them on a par then you don't understand the significance of how the EU changed.

Only fools and the far right, just like across this wonderful bastion of peace... the EU... taking hold.

@BoneyBackJefferson

Failed to even address the point I made. Well done.

The EU is a direct evolution from the EEC. This is a fact not "rubbish".
When we voted to remain in the EEC in 1975 it was quite clear that closer union was intended. It was clear, obvious and stated in the literature.

The changes were not 'sneaked' in hidden from the public. Thatcher negotiated the SEA with full and open public scrutiny. Maastricht, was debated widely. These issues were common knowledge. They were in manifestos.

Yet again I have addressed your points specifically. So Yaxley-Lennon he's on your bus - are you proud?

Windowsareforcheaters...Are you well??

2nd referendum will all options EU agrees with (remain, WA, ?customs union, no deal). Vote by AV.

Then it gives leavers a chance to vote no deal and remainers a chance to remain but can compromise on other options if no majority for their preference.

Windowsareforcheaters

The EU is a direct evolution from the EEC. This is a fact not "rubbish".

Learn to read, I said that if this had been your point it would be a fact but it wasn't.

Yet again I have addressed your points specifically. So Yaxley-Lennon he's on your bus - are you proud?

Yet again ask me something relevant that isn't sniping then you would get an answer, see above. Or are you just intending to goad?

I have answered your point, so now instead of snarking are you going to tell me how it feels to be on the same side as Tommy Robinson.

Not OP but I love this guilt by association tactic, how do you feel being on the same side as David Duke and Storm front by voting labour, I bet you backtrack and pretend your green or lib dem

She’s tenacious. I’m waiting for the answer too.