Do you judge women who don’t want kids?

[Ellabella989]

I’m in my early 30s and have decided I never want kids. Literally every single female who I’ve confided in about this, from family members to friends to work colleagues, have been incredibly judgemental and told me i’ll be missing out and will eventually regret it and could potentially spend my later years very lonely if my partner dies before me.
AIBU to find these opinions very irritating? I don’t list all the reasons to them why I think their way of life is less appealing to mine so I don’t see why I have to sit back and basically be told I’m a freak for not wanting kids. Maybe I just know some very judgemental people :-(

I don’t judge my childfree by choice friends at all. I can totally see why you wouldn’t want children and it’s quite literally none of my business. We still manage (I hope) to maintain good friendships; I don’t push my child into them or anything like that. I sometimes get frustrated because I feel like a few childfree acquaintances judge me for having children and can’t comprehend what I would get out of it. But I think that’s probably a defence mechanism or natural reaction after being openly judged by society for not having children.
One of my friends doesn’t want kids and she is always told ‘you might change your mind’. I can’t bear this reaction and I don’t know how she does.

When I was younger (early 20s) I did think it was strange. Then I got a job in an organisation where I worked with highly qualified professionals - they had worked all around the world, had amazing hobbies and really interesting experiences. Many didn't have children.

It made me realise that there are lots of options!!!

However, it means you don't have a right to moan about loneliness in your later years

By that logic, if a woman has only one child and she sadly outlives them or they move abroad or have a serious illness and can't visit often, that woman should be judged for being lonely and not having had 5 or 6 children (you know - just to make sure the Old Age Insurance Policy pays out!! )

'However, it means you don't have a right to moan about loneliness in your later years'

What a daft thing to say. Anyone can end up lonely, at any stage of their life, children or no children. You could argue that people without children are less likely to be lonely because they've never assumed their children will entertain / take care of them, so they are much more proactive about nurturing friendships and other relationships

I don't judge, no, but I do find it a bit odd that you'd come on to Mumsnet to say so. I mean I wouldn't go onto rumpsteaklover.com and say AIBU for not wanting to eat meat ever.

I admire them.

"I sometimes get frustrated because I feel like a few childfree acquaintances judge me for having children and can’t comprehend what I would get out of it. But I think that’s probably a defence mechanism or natural reaction after being openly judged by society for not having children."

Yes, I've had a couple of childfree friends in the past who were complete dickheads about women with children (calling them breeders and vegetables, etc). I had to end one of those friendships when I got pregnant, partly because she was being an arse, and partly because I could never have trusted her again. If any of her friends with kids so much as mentioned being tired or stressed, she'd start spreading rumours behind their back saying that they didn't want their children and wished they'd never had them. She spread rumours that one of our shared acquaintances regretted her baby and wished it had never been born, based purely on the fact that she'd seen the woman in question get a little bit stressed on one visit when her baby wouldn't eat its lunch (which is always a lot worse in front of judgemental strangers).

I definitely understand that it's usually a defensive reaction because childfree people are so used to having their own choices questioned.

I never felt the desire to have children. I can remember just ‘knowing’ this about me from my teens. In my 20s and early 30s I got all the ‘helpful’ comments PPs have described. I’m now past the point where ‘I don’t want children’ has become ‘I never had children’. I’m just waiting for the ‘what, no grandchildren?’ comments to kick in now! I’ve reached the stage of parenting my mum to a large extent but we are also good friends. I guess I’m aware that I’ll miss out on that side of things, but there really are no guarantees. Sadly I know people estranged from their adult DCs.

Yes, I've had a couple of childfree friends in the past who were complete dickheads about women with children (calling them breeders and vegetables, etc)

What disgusting and abusive behaviour! That's truly awful.

It's not about children looking after you in your older years, it's about them looking out for you.

I certainly won't be living with my DM when the time comes, but I would be very careful about where she lives, pop in unexpectedly and keep a close eye out to make sure there isn't anything awful going on. With all the money in the world if you've nobody looking out for you it's harder to protect yourself from abuse.

Yes it is harder to protect yourself from abuse.
But an Age Concern survey found out that many elderly people who are scammed hide it from their adult kids and relatives because they worry they will be forced to go into a home. This is what makes scams and abuse so hard to detect.
Also a relative of mine was I think abused by a live in carer. We could not get anyone to do anything as the relative just lied about any incidents. When I contacted the elder abuse line for advice, they said if the person had capacity, there was nothing I could do. They also said this situation was very common and they get lots of calls about it.

*However, it means you don't have a right to moan about loneliness in your later years.

Ok, if child free people can't moan about loneliness, then those with children can't moan about

• Children moving away
• Children not visiting as they have their own lives
• Children not providing them with grandchildren
• Children not getting married
• Children not caring for them in their old age
• Children marrying people they disapprove of

And so on.*

This^

I have 4 children ranging from 3 years to nearly 21 years and I love being surrounded by my children but that is what I wanted, I absolutely respect other people’s decision on their families. If you want kids great, if you don’t, also great.

I would be massively offended if anyone passed comment on any of my decisions that have no bearing on them or their life. Stick with what makes you and your husband happy.

I do judge a bit in the sense that I feel people are missing out.

Not everyone gets to perform life-saving surgery on someone else. Not everyone gets to explore space. Not everyone gets to experience the joy of being able to provide clean water and sanitation solutions to rural villages in third world nations. Not everyone gets to go to art galleries and see entire exhibitions of things they have created.

Don't you realise, everyone "misses out" on certain things in life. Someone choosing not to have kids doesn't make their life any less complete than you feel yours is.

I worked in social work for a few years (admin, that is) and there were a fair few abuse cases where it was their own children who were abusing the elderly. If it weren't for the social workers, they would have been at the mercy of abusive children.

There was one case with a man lived with his mother to "look after her" - he just wanted free accommodation, carer's money and access to his mother's bank account. He would lock her in the house so she couldn't wander and he was out drinking every night. No food in the house, etc.

So she was lonely, hungry and very vulnerable. Lonelier than she would have been without her son in fact, because he kept any potential friends away (it was in his interests to do so).

It's because we lived in a small close-knit area and people saw what was going on (him drinking at the local every night) and dobbed him into the social work who investigated that his mother was rescued from the abuse.

A lot of children are surprisingly angry about "their rightful inheritance" being spent on care for their parents.

Social work - it's a real eye-opener!

I used to until I had my own. If I could go back and do it all again I would still have children but I now completely respect women who choose not to have them.

Financial abuse of the elderly is on the rise, and the perpetrator is frequently a family member

Furthermore, a survey last year by KPMG indicated an explosion of cases in which the perpetrator of the fraud was a family member

www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/blog/close-to-home-spotting-elder-abuse/

I haven’t RTFT as it’s just too long. But no, absolutely not. Why on earth would I? Generally people who judge are rather stupid and not capable of nuanced thinking. I judge people who judge.

You are doing right by any hypothetical children in being self-aware enough to know that you do not want them and having the courage to take that position confidently.

Anyone can end up lonely, at any stage of their life, children or no children. You could argue that people without children are less likely to be lonely because they've never assumed their children will entertain / take care of them, so they are much more proactive about nurturing friendships and other relationships

And this ^

It just reminds me what planet do some parents think they are on ?

But I would secretly feel a bit sad for them

But what if not having children makes them happy? Would you feel sad for someone being happy?

I chose not to have children because I am happy with my life without them, and there’s a lot about life with them that I think would make me unhappy. To have a child in those circumstances, and hope that it would actually be ok, would be a huge risk - it is, after all, something of an irreversible situation.

And I’ve heard it all from the “You’ll regret it” to “You don’t know live until you have a child”. Sometimes I am polite, sometimes I challenge them, sometimes a brisk “Fuck off” does the trick. Thankfully I don’t know many people who would be this much of an asshat as to make these comments.

However, it means you don't have a right to moan about loneliness in your later years.

Oh do fuck off.

Nope, I spent years saying I didn't want kids. I do have an 8 month old DD now (I'm also 30) and whilst I love her more than anything, there's no doubt that my life would have been just as fulfilled without her.

It's a completely valid choice and as being a mother does not define being a woman!

No but then again I am struggling with that decision myself. I feel like I'll have kids because I'll give in to the pressure from parents, society etc.

However, it means you don't have a right to moan about loneliness in your later years.

And the award for the most ridiculous comment on MN goes to...

My mother spent the last three years of her life in a care home. The home would periodically hold meetings for residents’ families. They were eextremely poorly attended, barely half a dozen people, in a home of about 35 people a fair proportion of whom must have had children.