To ask if feminism has ruined your life?

[Playtive]

Joining mumsnet coincided with having my first baby. Having my first baby coincided with realising I’d married a deeply sexist man. Ergo a feminist was born.

Long story short he did nothing with our baby. He expected his life to continue as he wanted and it was my job to do all the drudge work.

I had huge resentment and really struggled for the first year of DDs life.

Anywho we’re still together and things marginally improved as she got older, however my resentment will not go away and I think it’s only a matter of time before I eventually leave - even though leaving would undoubtedly make mine and my child’s life harder.

Everywhere I look now I see inequality, male privilege, overt and covert abuse of women and it’s actually ruining my life somewhat.

I can’t watch a lighthearted television show without noticing sexism. Innocent conversation with female friends/family can give me the rage inside with all the internalised misogyny. Pretty much every conversation with my husband regarding women makes me think he’s an entitled sexist arsehole. Even though I wouldn’t have batted an eye to these seemingly innocuous comments previously and was a very easy going person.

Has this happened to anyone else? How did you deal with it? AIBU to just want to watch television in peace?!

I agree with you Packingsoap. They have a number on us don't they with their bro networks at the same time pitting women against each other . So what are us women going to do about it?

Nothing probably. And lamentably.

So we've had pretty much had "I don't see it so it doesn't exist" and a broad attempt at "NAMALT".

Anything else we should be aware of before we call MN feminist thread bingo?

Feminism didn't ruin my life. My mother staying in a relationship with my father who was sexist and abusive definitely had a huge impact on me though and at times I've felt my life was ruined.

You say you think you will end up leaving him. Do it, why wait. My mum used excuses like life would be harder if she left. My life was hard because she stayed. Get out for the sake of your child.

In my experience, sexist men often have other worrying views and behaviours.

In terms of increased anger - yes, once the scales were removed I got angry.

It's not just about pay/sexual safety/all the things that are usually thought of when feminism is mentioned. It's the constant micro aggressions that women put up with every day simply because of our biological sex - those are the most tiring.

Having a daughter definitely radicalised my feminism.

I know exactly what you mean.

Years ago I was on another forum which shut down a few years ago, which is why I then joined Mumsnet.

The lovely members on that forum showed me exactly how shit and abusive my now ex husband was. It took years for him to leave but I am so happy now, on my own with my teenagers.

I am a feminist and I am raising my children, boys and girls to be so as well. I do not want my boys to behave like their father did and I do not want my girls to think that being treated like that is acceptable.

No, it has not ruined my life, it has made it better.

@thisdisorganisedmum - you mention that you work n a male dominated industry and have been promoted. I'm going out on a limb here, but do you/your colleagues consider you to have the "biggest balls"? Are you generally one of the guys in the office, enjoying similar banter and chats? Do you pride yourself on being tough?

And when you were promoted, were you by far and away the strongest candidate for the job - better, more hardworking and more talented/experienced than others? Because, of course, you're really good and you've worked really really hard?

You also said: "I have also witnessed women who complain about gender pay gap when they are refusing to do the same job! I have witnessed women complaining about less promotion, pay rise or bonuses, but refusing to do the same hours - and have the same results - as their colleagues."

Now, please, just for a second, try to keep an open mind on the following:

1. why do you need to behave like a man/outman the men/ have giant balls to succeed? Do you not think there's room for a different style and approach? why must the male approach be the default that then requires women to adapt to it? (note - you might not need to adapt, it might be that this is also your natural approach. But can you concede that it's not the case for other women).

1. Assuming that when you were promoted you were by far the best and had worked harder, deserved it more - can you honestly say that you have never seen a situation in which a man just has to be mediocre to achieve the same thing? Are you 100% confident that if you were just slightly better you would still have got the job? would you have got the job if you were less able and willing to engage in the male banter?

1. For women who are "refusing" to do these jobs that mean they're paid better - do you try think this is right? Is the world so completely unchangeable that we can't, as a society, think that maybe the problem is the structure of the workplace? That maybe highly talented women who nonetheless don't want to be working 80 hours a week or whatever it is, should still have the opportunity to use their talents? And that the organisations they work for, and our society as a whole, will benefit accordingly?

I don't know how old you are. But honestly, you sound exactly like me 15 years ago. I thought women were the main thing holding women back - they weren't willing to step in and get dirty and put in the effort the men were. It's taken me years to realise that a) our structures are intrinsically flawed, catering not only to mostly men, but mostly only a certain type of man and b) It didn't matter how hard I worked, if a man was as good or almost as good as me, he was going to get the promotion/the job/the bonus, not me and c) I was ambitious but I didn't want to work the crazy hours or live my life through work. I love working, but I don't use it to define me.

When I was young I read The Women's Room. I really did not want to believe the conclusions that book reached about how women are oppressed in every way by men and even the most decent man is a sexist under the surface. I am quite a bit older now (a lot older!) and realise now that book was truthful. The worst thing for me is that I don't think it is any better for younger women. It is very depressing.

And to OP, waking up to the misogyny and sexism IS exhausting, I agree. And it's impacted a lot of things in my life - how I view work, the people I want to be friends with etc. I saw an old friend recently I hadn't seen in years. we had a lovely catch up, but I realised that while we'd been very close back in the day, even though we're now working near each other again it's very unlikely we'll be close again because she is a feminist in her way, but her feminism doesn't take into account the stuff we're talking about here - she just doesn't see how deeply ingrained misogyny is and she kept making comments that I interest as victim blaming. And I just can't be super good friends with women like that any more.

@trytobenicedear - it's worse for younger women. Because when they are outraged about an issue, they get shushed a lot with , "but you can be anything or do anything now, you have nothing to complain about". Or worse, because they can technically be anything or do anything, they're oblivious to how misogyny is affecting them.

@BlingLoving the battle is very far from won, isn't it?

Hmm. Abusive women ruined my life...well specifically my mother...on the support group I am on, most of the people talk about abuse by mothers not fathers to be honest with the father being more passive / enabler. Also in RL I find more men than women to be calm, kind and considerate and not sexist etc (apart from one or two older ones I have worked with.

So, for me, this does not ring true so much.

It's not to say that sexual crimes are not a priority to Police (they are)
Oh Haha Haha Haha
God that's so funny.

Disorganised - women are not born 'victims', but they are born more vulnerable than men in virtue of their sex. And we know that by looking at stats. I could quote many many stats at you, but look into strangulation stats. Not all men strangle, but very nearly all people who strangle are men. And very nearly all people who are strangled are women or children. Its not jst women. Its any atypical (when typicality is seen as white male etc) group. Look at stats on prison populations and blackness. Black men and women much more likely to be imprisoned. Stats tell you everything you need to know. Its not an opinion. Its a fact. In a white heteropatriarchal order, atypical groups do less well on almost every indicator. So, they are not victims. They are vulnerable and, as you said, at risk of harm and social exclusion.

It's frankly ridiculous to pretend one gender is more at risk than another

Two women a week are killed by their current or former partner in England and Wales. It's "frankly ridiculous" to pretend that male violence against women is not a massive problem.

My life is not ruined, it is improved.

I am angry about the inequalities and #metoo moments that marred my youth, I am livid about the continuing systemic sexism that erodes our safety and our strength. But I KNOW I enjoy freedoms that others have not, and I want to celebrate how far we have come in one or two generations. Much of my 'success' is down to luck, but the doors were open because of feminism.

I am LUCKY because of the generations that went before me, and I am part of the generation of feminist that will pave the way for the next.

I am LUCKY enough to wear what I want, visit who i want, travel how I want and express my opinion frequently, at volume - judgers be damned.

I am LUCKY because most of the men and women in my life are not sexist arseholes. I worked through both my maternity leaves whilst my DH looked after our DCs. I take advantage of flexible working and SPL to balance my domestic needs with my professional desires.

I am LUCKY because I have a (professional) platform and a voice, and my resolve (and privilege?) is such that I can call out systemic inequality and individual discrimination where I see it, either in the board room or in the street.

I am grateful to both my parents and my good fortune to live in a society where there are like-minded people like you to acknowledge and fight all the small battles and the big ones too.

Despair of your husband, by all means, but do not despair of yourself. Every tiny victory, and every glimpse of awareness, every bit of rage in your gut is part of winning the battle, not the losing.

MN bingo! for AnneOfCleanTables
if anyone disagree with you, or the majority on ONE thread, they must be a troll.

BlingLoving
replying very quickly to some of your points

well, no, sorry, I am absolutely not generally one of the guys in the office, enjoying similar banter and chats?
I am pretty much the opposite I am not afraid to stand my ground, but I am really not one of the guys. I don't mean I am an outsider either, but I am just "average" (can't find right word).

you were by far the best and had worked harder, deserved it more
I was definitively the most charming
Not in a bimbo kind of way, but the one who doesn't need to be loud and sweary and did come across a lot better.

That maybe highly talented women who nonetheless don't want to be working 80 hours a week or whatever it is, should still have the opportunity to use their talents?
that's not a man or woman problem though, nothing to do with gender. Some industries have of course a culture of crazy hours, they really are gender neutral.

I have seen plenty of situations where a mediocre person got the best rewards, but again, gender neutral: it was more related of who they were or who they knew than anything else.

I am in my 40s. I do find it a bit sad that you have to assume that any woman has to be caricatural to achieve anything, when I think in the majority of cases it's the skills and personality that matter. Not the gender, at least not in this country.

Isn't being afraid of being raped enough? I mean there is a lot more to choose from but even if it was 'just' rape it would still be too much surely?

The Op said she saw mysogyny "everywhere". Are you seeing rapes all the time, or something? It's not the same thing at all.

However, women also have some allowances made for them, that men do not, which I find ridiculous. How many women have aided and abetted male murderers & abusers, on the premise that they were just coerced females, that felt they had no choice other than to go along with it? Bullshit! In many cases, those women had several opportunities to alert the Police, but they covered for their boyfriends instead. But hey, they're women, so that's ok? I don't fucking think so.

Regarding male violence, I think we are now living in a world that has changed so vastly from when the world began, that men don't have any outlet for their testosterone any more, and it has to go somewhere. If you went back to caveman times, those men would have been hunting all day, protecting their women and children from wild animals and other male predators. I doubt they'd have the energy to attack another person (of no threat), for shits and giggles. There is a male energy now, that has no outlet. I have no idea what the answer to that is.

Unfortunately, women will be treated differently in the workplace, because the vast majority of women want children, and they also want to be the main carer and take Mat Leave. If you have a few kids, you are out of the workplace for a good few years, whereupon your male counterparts have been rising up the grades whilst you sat at home. You probably also went back to work Part time, to save on childcare costs, so now, here you are, on a lower salary, and as such, whenever one parent needs to take a day off for a sick child, it tends to be the woman, as her job (if she lost it) isn't as important, as she's not the main wage earner. Can't do much about that. I earn about a 6th of what my ExH does for this very reason. Would I go back in time, and let him have the time off work, the closer bond with our kids etc : hell, no.

Some feminists can take it too far, in the sense that they will be offended if a man pays for a meal, or opens a door for them. Why? We can be equal, but still remember manners and chivalry. Take offence if you really want to, at your date opening a door for you, but guaranteed, if you marry him, you'll end up sewing on a few buttons for him, when his big fat fingers can't handle a needle. Oh no, women's work! Not really. I do any sewing in our house, as I have tiny nimble fingers. DH carries heavy loads, because he's 6ft 3 and super strong and I'm a petite 5ft woman. He also fixes the car, because I don't understand mechanics. I might make him a coffee whilst he does that. Gasp!

Basically, pick your battles.

What really angers me, is the fact that women's sport is going to be dead in the water pretty soon. And I don't even like sport. But fuck me, women can't take any of the top spots, when men are allowed to enter in the female category, because they "feel" like Barbara. I am RAGING at this. This is the biggest problem we face, imo. It is a tragedy of our time, and as a woman, I feel awful that it's happening on my watch and I'm not doing anything about it.

And disorganised. You cannot use your (and your friends) experience to infer general rules. Evidence doesnt work like that. You need large numbers to see patterns and statistically significant differences.

Huskylover1
i think your post makes a lot of sense.

I don't know about an outlet for male violence, but that's an interesting point.
It's obvious that western society is so bored that we have created all these survival reality shows from the Fear Factor to Survivor. Maybe it has something to do with it.

that's not a man or woman problem though, nothing to do with gender. Some industries have of course a culture of crazy hours, they really are gender neutral.

except, based on the way our (patriarchal) society works, it is much more likely to be men who are wiling and able to work these hours. They don't have the same caring responsibilities and are not expected to be home for the kids. They don't read headlines every day about how fathers who work long hours are the reason for rising obesity in children etc etc. So it's a LOT easier for men to make that decision.

I don't think you're being goady. But I do think you're blinkered, and for whatever reason, you are happy with that. sorry. (and yes, of course you're going to find that statement annoying and offensive).

Here are a few things that send me into a feminist rage on a regular basis:

Every single time I see men on the school run who do it as a "favour" or who drop it whenever something comes up at work and expect someone else to pick up the slack.

Every time I think back on my career and realise the double standards that were applied to me - I was once accusing of "boasting" because I was happy to take the credit for an incredible success that I had 100% been responsible for. And when I wanted a promotion, I was told it wasn't possible as I didn't have the right experience, but the man who got the job hadn't even worked in our industry before....

Every time I read a headline like I've already mentioned, blaming MOTHERs for all society's issues, including things over which they have no control (my personal favourite being the one about how women who were stressed in pregnancy were causing untold damage to their unborn children)

Every time I take a look at the representation of men in parliament, many of them barely competent, while highly competent women struggle to even get nominated.

Every time a man tells me about his terrible female boss, making it clear THAT's why she's terrible and doesn't even realise that his previous terrible bosses, all men, were just terrible and not because they were men.

And these are just the relatively petty things. Don't even get me started on the way rape victims have to justify why they didn't deserve to be raped, "No honestly, I didn't lead him on, I wasn't wearing revealing clothing and I only had 1 drink..." Or the statistics (mentioned repeatedly on this thread) about how men perpetuate most violent crimes, often against women. Or the hundreds of stories we're hearing as a result of the #MeToo movement of women who thought they had to give access to their bodies so that they could get ahead in life.

and BeardyButton
You cannot use your (and your friends) experience to infer general rules.

I wasn't.
I was just making the point that you can't say that all women are this or that, victims or bullied. I also pointed out the rules and laws in this country.

I am at the stage now where I think that I never want to be with a man ever again. I am not prepared to give up my freedom and independence to run after someone who thinks he is better than me because he has a penis

So, because you married a sexist foreigner from a different culture, you don't want to ever be with any man ever again, even though the world has plenty of men who are lovely and not sexist? Wow. What about sex?

Everyone's personal experiences are relevant however i do feel you are forgetting that we do get better treatment than men in a lot of things. Feminism is about equality and i think if everything was totally equal there would be some really angry women

Feminism is about equality and i think if everything was totally equal there would be some really angry women
Sigh, this old chestnut.
Feminism is about women. The clue is in the name.
If things were ever equal there would be some bloody pissed off men cos I for one vote to kill 2 or 3 a week. Randomly. I dont care how random is quantified, pick the short straw, a random number generator, the abused and murdered womens families choosing.
Amongst other things

OP.

If you look for dog shit, you'll find dog shit.

If you look for cute furry dogs, you'll find cute furry dogs.

There is as much abuse, perpetrated by women, towards men, as there is men abusing women. If you bothered to look for it, you would find it.

Women in the UK are NOT oppressed. Men are. Not women. There isn't any patriarchy.

The most senior civil servant, the PM, is a woman. Please explain how the patriarchy is responsible for this?

The First Minister of Scottland is a woman. Anything to say about how the patriarchy has repressed her?

The most famous, successfull and wealthy author on the planet is a woman. How has the patriarchy repressed JK Rowling?

One of the most successfull music artists is a woman. How has the patriarchy repressed Adele?

The CEO of GSK is a woman.

The CEO of Whitbread is a woman.

Would you like me to go on.

Please enlighten me as to how the above are repressed.