To be livid with DD for hurting DDog

[HelenLaBloodyAnnoyed]

DD is 11. Tonight we were at the park with our dog. There's a slide that's on a hill so it doesn't have steps up to it. She was standing at the top and about to throw DDogs ball when DDog knocked it out of her hands and it rolled down the slide. DDog jumped on the slide without thinking and went sliding down after it, pretty gracefully actually. DD thought it was hilarious but I told her to keep DDog and the ball away from it as DDog had been lucky not to get hurt.

Half hour later I'm across the park pushing DS on the swings and I see DD drop the ball down the slide. DDog goes to run away from the top of the slide and down the hill alongside it but DD blocks DDog so DDog slips down backwards and twists halfway down (it's not a straight slide.) Again, DD is in hysterics.

When I tell her off she says she didn't mean to and that it was an accident. Her sister backs up what I saw - that she dropped it and blocked DDog deliberately. As I was putting the DC to bed I saw that DDog isn't bearing weight on one of her legs and told DD so. She said "fine, I'm sorry" and stroked DDog. AIBU to think that doesn't cut it and to be absolutely livid? She messaged her dad about it who messaged me saying she's done nothing wrong

No, she doesn't have any SN. I've just never known a child to be so self-centred. She actually adores her sister and our dog but her concern for herself is way above her concern for anyone else.

Dog on a slide is stupid and I'd be livid, but he had managed it once and been fine and she'd found it funny so that's 11 year old being an idiot territory, small sister being led to a canal is really worrying though, what reason did she have to lead her over there other than you had told her not to?

I'd be furious, especially with her laughing at the dog. I'd make her come to the vet with me at the very least, and yes, paying at least part of the bill might be appropriate.

The story about the canal is very worrying. It seems in both cases there was an active wish for the dog/her sister to hurt themselves. You should definitely bear that in mind in future.

I would be asking your local police officer ( if you have one) to come and speak very sternly to her.
Her dad sounds pathetic.
Or deliberately duplicitous.

This is a difficult one. Yes, she should know right from wrong, but she is not necessarily understanding that she could and is potentially causing harm to others. Without more insight into her behaviour then I think people are jumping a bit fast to say she needs CAMHS input etc.
If there is a back story then fair enough, but using 2 separate incidents which may or may not have been intentional, and presuming that she needs mental health help at 11 is a bit excessive.

Also, CAMHS would not do anything with this. They are snowed under with children and young people currently, and your best bet is GP, who may be able to do a ‘chat’ and see how that goes.

I’d send her to live with her dad. She can’t be trusted around her siblings or your animals. He believes her behaviour is normal. Either the reality of looking after her will pull him on board and you can manage it with a united front, or you’ll at least make your home safe for your other children.

OP, you quite clearly described what are deliberate actions. Do not minimise it now. Bad enough her dad does and she seems to play you both off against each other. You do need professional help because this is serious. It's not a slight on your parenting but you really can't afford to not address this.

I am shocked about her little sister and the canal. I would suggest speaking to the doctor for a referral to someone. In idea who but she needs help.

That's twice her actions have resulted in harm to others. Your husband and you need to sit her down and explain that actions have consequences. Those consequences are serious and you don't ask her to stop because you are trying to spoil her fun but because the consequences result in others being hurt or put in danger. I would be instigating sanctions at home for this. Screen time/tv time/grounding. Your husband needs to step up and parent his child instead if undermining you.

I think then OP, you need to ask her WHY she is deliberately ignoring you.

You tell her not to do something, she does it anyway.

I'm wondering if her dad is undermining you in some way by taking her side, she may be thinking what you say is becoming less important in some way.

How is your relationship with you ex - on good terms?

A friend had a son who behaved like this - he was assessed at secondary school as being on the spectrum; he used to "set up" situations like those you have described and his behaviour got worse as he got older. I think without knowing how she has been as a younger child and how her relationships with friends and family then its hard to say but clearly you are concerned OP - have you thought of trying a parents helpline like Young Minds? They can discuss it informally and come up with some ideas as to whether your DD needs to see GP or be assessed at school etc.

youngminds.org.uk/find-help/for-parents/

I would be livid too, for both events. If tell her if she wasn't going to listen and do such stupid things she will be being treated like a little child in future and not be allowed on slides etc unless you're next to her. I'd also tell her she had to pay a contribution to the vets bill (enough that it feels big to her).

As for her father, I'd tell him to open his eyes, give his head a wobble and butt out. He wasn't there, he didn't see what happened and he's being manipulated by an 11 yr old.

Is her dad telling her to ignore you/ do the opposite of what you say?

Does your dd have the same dad as her siblings? I ask as there is a big age gap and she is texting her dad. If not, how has she adjusted to having younger siblings and possibly a step dad? If she is in y6, how is she coping with sats pressure? She sounds like she may be regressing and I thing the incident with the dog may be dismissed as wanting to see the dog on the slide and having poor impulse control, but the incident with her sister makes me wonder if she is resenting her siblings and maybe resenting having to be responsible and mature. Obviously she needs to see the consequences of her actions, but I wonder if she needs some love bombing too.

She isn't deliberately trying to hurt them, she looks shocked when things have gone wrong

If she was 6 maybe, but at 11 I dont buy that at all, she is old enough to understand listening and consequences.

I think some of these responses are way OTT. She didn't deliberately set out to hurt the dog and she didn't push her sister into the canal. She was just thoughtless, as kids often are. I think she probably finds it hard to face up to the consequences of her actions hence her denial. In her eyes she didn't mean to do anything wrong. Children will often find it hard to apologise or show remorse when it's for something they never intended to happen.

FWIW I was like this as a kid - thoughtless, pushing boundaries and a slightly twisted sense of humour and found it hard to apologise. I can confirm as an adult that my sister is alive and well (and we are very close), I am an animal loving vegan, and I am the first to apologise if I have caused upset of any kind. You lot are making this child out to be the next Myra Hindley!

I am an animal loving vegan
Is that in reference to you hurting animals as a child? Pretty weird behaviour tbh, although Myra Hindley is a bit of a stretch.

Her dad won't communicate with me at all, other than to have a go at me.

She's always struggled to have foresight but at least looked remorseful in the past. It's the 'not my fault' attitude and arguing the opposite of whatever I say that is getting to me.

Agree with some PPs - (excessive) self-centredness and lack of awareness of consequences can both be signs of someone being on the autistic spectrum - although I know they can also be perfectly common traits for NT children too. Girls in particular are often able to 'hide' their ASD until teens when it becomes more obvious - so although the OP says her daughter has no SEN, it would definitely be worth speaking to someone about it just to rule it out.

Whether SEN or not though, these are worrying behaviours and action needs to be taken now to address. Good luck, OP

I just wouldn't engage with her dad unless it's regarding something important. Don't even reply.

Do you think she's just approaching the dreaded teens?

AIBU to think that doesn't cut it and to be absolutely livid?

YANBU. I would be livid, & worried.

She messaged her dad about it who messaged me saying she's done nothing wrong

Great. Dad had a front row seat at the debacle so knows all about it. Not.
Horrible for you to be played off against dad like this. At 11 years old she needs to have more compassion & empathy - for the dog, and for her beleagured mother in this instance!

Very good luck with getting through to her.

Book the vets appointment for a time when DD can go with you, so she can see what she's done. She quite enjoys causing hurt to other people/dogs, doesn't she?

Do the children share the same father? Or is 4yo DD and DS with a different partner? I’m only asking as I’d be very worried sending the younger two off for access with elder sister while your ex is so dismissive of her dangerous behaviour.

I'm not sure the Myra Hindley stuff is right either tbh. I incline with what someone says that for some reason she's losing respect for what you say op. She thinks she knows better. I can imagine thinking at that age 'oh, the dog was fine before, he'll check fine again, I'll just make sure she doesn't see.' she's not really sorry after because she doesn't think it was her fault, although she deliberately got the dog in the slide, him being hurt was 'an accident'.
I suspect it's her dad giving her the impression your word isn't law but whatever it is, MAKE her realise it is. Now, while she's hopefully still little enough that you can physically make her. Tell her dad to fuck off or just ignore his input every time and impose harsh and immediate punishment every time she disobeys you. Make her know that you're in charge, rather than reasoning with her because it sounds like at this stage, she doesn't trust your opinion.

IhateBoswell no never intentionally hurt animals as a child. But actually this thread reminded me of the time I nudged my cat down the slide several times and it obviously didn't like going down the slide and could easily have got hurt. i thought it was funny at the time but it was stupid and thoughtless. But not pure evil.