DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

I am sorry but a lot of the remainers on here (I am sure that there are reasonable ones like LyingWtichin) are coming across as quite aggressive and unpleasant, no wonder people do not want to argue with them, it is better just to keep quite.

The OP is angry because her DH can't put forward a logical argument.

But he doesn't have to. He doesn't owe anyone an explanation, logical or otherwise. Doesn't matter if he voted on just a hunch or a gut feeling that he cant put into words. That is the beauty of being in a democratic society.

I'm sorry, but your husband does not owe you an explanation as to why he voted as he did, articulate or otherwise. He is perfectly entitled to vote as he pleases without ever being able to explain why. You in turn are entitled to be angry about that, but that is where your entitlement stops.

Thank fuck for that, some thinking posters are on the thread.

My husband voted Leave. We cancelled each other out. I work for a European company, he's neither thick nor racist and still entitled to vote as he sees fit.

We can sign petitions and we can attend protests but frothing on a forum isn't achieving anything and sooner or later we will have to accept what happens, even if we would rather it didn't.

OP he has explained his reasoning to you. He was dissatisfied and wanted to try something else. He can use his vote however he chooses, for whatever reasons he likes and has no obligation to justify himself to you, or a bunch of strangers on the internet, however unreasonable you may feel that is.

Separate your politics and treat your husband the way you yourself would want to be treated

That’s probably the best advice OP (that says, I sympathise, I would find it incredibly difficult too. Thankfully, our household is in complete agreement).

@user1480880826

I am in the same boat with my parents who voted leave. I can’t begin to imagine having a partner who voted leave when you voted remain. I still find myself incredibly angry at my parents who also can’t intelligently articulated why they voted leave (beyond being telegraph readers.

Your poor parents. Luckily we have 2 much more mature and intelligent young adult children who voted remain, and know we voted leave, but accept the reasons why we voted leave. Just as we accept why they voted remain. We don't agree with each other, but we don't attack each other, and post nasty shit on message forums about each other.

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who ends up with a person with your attitude (and the OP's and a few others on here.) I also don't believe that every leaver, that all these remainers have spoken, to have never given a single reason why they voted to leave.

If that IS the case, it's probably - as a few people have said - because they know, no matter what they say, the remainer questioning them will lay into them.

Most leavers are now staying quiet, and waiting for the day when we are eventually free of the EU shackles.

Can't come soon enough tbh.

@user1480880826

I am in the same boat with my parents who voted leave. I can’t begin to imagine having a partner who voted leave when you voted remain. I still find myself incredibly angry at my parents who also can’t intelligently articulated why they voted leave (beyond being telegraph readers.

Your poor parents. Luckily we have 2 much more mature and intelligent young adult children who voted remain, and know we voted leave, but accept the reasons why we voted leave. Just as we accept why they voted remain. We don't agree with each other, but we don't attack each other, and post nasty shit on message forums about each other.

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who ends up with a person with your attitude (and the OP's and a few others on here.) I also don't believe that every leaver, that all these remainers have spoken to, have never given a single reason why they voted to leave.

If that IS the case, it's probably - as a few people have said - because they know, no matter what they say, the remainer questioning them will lay into them.

Most leavers are now staying quiet, and waiting for the day when we are eventually free of the EU shackles.

Can't come soon enough tbh.

I was abused and raped by my ex. I know what abuse is. I still think the Ops actions were abusive.

I am glad we are seeing reasonable posters from both sides on here now to inject some common sense into this thread.

Maybe he wanted change but wasn't that bothered whether that change was 'in our best interests' or not? If so, then you are expecting him to articulate an argument which doesn't, and didn't, have anything to do with his reasons. If you put words in his mouth like that, of course he won't be able to explain to you.

I agree OP, I am really down about it all , today , Some of the people I Went to uni with and politically campaigned with, and thought were really good friends with for 20 years , voted leave . And daft as it may seem I really haven't been able to see them ever since.. They were witnesses at our wedding too. I have had to put the photos away

I was thinking about them yesterday , watching the march ( sadly I wasnt able to go ) and was really sad that people I had loved , in the end had become really so opposed to things I grown to hold dear .. ..

Thanks americandream, the agressive and nasty behaviour from some of tthose who voted remain is unacceptable. Quite frankly tells us about the type of person that they are!

My parents also voted leave. I respect their vote as well as my dp's.

I couldn't imagine being angry at adults for voting how they do, being an adult myself.

@Lyingwitchinthewardrobe I am also pleased to see some intelligent sensible posters on this thread, with some well articulated posts. Some are leave voters, or are remain voters, (who are not attacking the leavers,) and some are remain voters who have a leave partner whose decision they accept. Makes a refreshing change Most of the usual suspects must still be in bed!

DH and I voted differently in the Scottish independence referendum (I like to think I cancelled out his yes vote ). We don’t really speak of it. It just leads to arguments. Although now because of Brexit he gets very eye rolly about the fact that “Scotland voted to remain” and “if people hadn’t voted against independence this would never have happened”.

My view is that Scotland voted to be part of the UK. And the UK voted to come out of the EU. So it’s immaterial to me that Scotland voted to remain (we both voted to remain for the record). London also voted to remain. It’s the exact same thing to me.

It also makes it very difficult for me to argue in favour of a second referendum because I am dead against the idea of a second Scottish referendum (although I secretly have my fingers crossed)

People can vote however they choose. That is the point of the one person one vote and the ballot box. Whether they can articulate why they voted that way or not is irrelevant. Just because someone voted in a different way to you does not mean they deserve to have insults hurled at them.

This constant mud slinging when it comes to Brexit - everyone who voted to leave is a racist xenophobe, middle aged, old, thick, uneducated ... Everyone who voted to remain is a lefty, university graduate, snowflake, liberal traitor.

It's ridiculous. This country is split down the middle when it comes to the EU. But why do we have to label, insult and denigrate each other? If we were to respect each other's point of view, then we might begin to ascertain why it is such a divisive issue.

We are tearing ourselves apart as a country and it's horrible to see. Neither side is 100% right, regardless of whether you think you are or not. There is growing scepticism with the EU right across Europe. Look what's just happened in The Netherlands. Barely a mention in the press.
We need to look at why this is happening, and try and better understand what is going on instead of alienating each other.

The reality is if we leave the EU then half the population are going to be unhappy and that won't go away. If we stay in the EU then half the population are going to be unhappy and that won't go away either. Political turmoil will be on the cards for years to come.

@Aeroflotgirl

😘

Aeroflotgirl

My DM voted to Remain solely because she thought the rest of Europe would go to war with us if we left.

I grew up with an actual abusive family and get fucking sick of "you're abusing someone if you ask them a question". Bullshit.

I don't like the word "snowflake" but if you can't stand being asked WHY you think something, and think it's abuse, then it applies and you need to get a grip.

Thing is, it's OK to be angry with people close to you if they hold, express and act on views you find morally unacceptable. I think one deciding factor in whether or not you can 'agree to disagree' is if both of you can articulate, to a certain extent, your reason for holding a different view.
A lot of people who voted Leave did so because they are obsessed with immigration. I have no patience with people who are opposed to free movement, simply because this is a moron position: it's not difficult to find out the facts that migrants contribute more to the UK than they take out, that the numbers are considerably smaller than what the rightwing press claim and that the reason public services are overstretched is due to government decisions to support rich profiteers rather than fund a decent infrastructure.

Bear in mind OP knows her husband. It's possible to spend quite a lot of time with someone who has a different view to yours without actually digging deep enough to find out what supports their opinion, and if, when you do, you find it's something ghastly, it can change your view of a person. There have been threads on MN before from posters whose relationships fractured when something like a high-profile assault case was discussed enough to make it obvious that their male partners were fundamentally misogynistic.

And I have met some Leave voters who initially voted Leave for reasons which were not about racism or rebelling against the government: I didn't agree with their reasons but didn't hate them either. I don't think any of them voted for this current clusterfuck. I voted Remain partly because of fear of the resurgent fascism and the idea of the UK being caught between our home-grown racists and fascists and the US wingnuts if we don't have the EU as a buffer.

FrugalFanny
A sensible, honest post. Agree 100%.

It is frustrating. It shows them to lack analytical thinking and they can come across as rather dim, even if they aren't.

To be fair, there was nothing for us to analyse was there?

I voted remain and felt very strongly but I'd I'd hate to have to justify it. For me it was a "gut" feeling, possibly even sentimental. There is so much wrong with how the EU is run especially the wasting of money - the decamping to Strasbourg for example. But I still want to in it. But that's not going to convince anyone is it?

If it had gone the other way, I think the leavers would have shrugged their shoulders and moved on. I have been genuinely shocked - and sonewhat ashsmed - at the viciousness of the remainers' reaction towards leavers.

Aeroflotgirl, I did consider voting 'Leave'. I despise the political system and the dross politicians that we have in the UK. I can actually understand why Leavers felt/feel the way they do even if it's not articulated to the satisfaction of those who choose to Remain.

The UK, filtering down to the individual countries, regions and communities, completely divided and if the politicians had any sense, they would rally, form some sort of plan of action to unite us. But they won't. They don't live as we do, have no idea of the pressures of others safe in their rarified atmosphere.

There was ample time and opportunity to improve our position in the EU... and we failed. And we will have NO idea what talks went on, with whom or agreeing what.

I love being European, I'm ashamed of our politicians here, not the people, the politicians that facilitated and enabled this mess.

It's not intelligent to keep berating people who cannot change what has happened.

Political turmoil will be on the cards for years to come. Exactly. If our elected representatives had done their jobs we may have had a totally different response, more information, more understanding. But they chose to grandstand and we know nothing that is of any use, just more conjecture and stupidity!

That the EU and the individual member states see to be equally divided on this shows how unknowable the politics, the economics of it all are.

The only thing I can cleave to is that the EU was becoming more and more unwieldy and, with accepting more countries without stable government or economic bases, was looking more and more like a Ponzi scheme... a broken Pyramid Scheme.

Could we have done more on the inside? I don't know. But something in the EU has got to change, it is beginning to resemble a late era Roman Empire!