DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

Donut i didnt force him to have a conversation with me...

I agree with the posters saying that a lot of remain voters have never been able to articulate why they voted remain. Indeed, quite a number I have encountered didn't know what the EU WAS when they voted in the referendum. In fact, I encountered more remain voters during the first six month after the Brexit vote who couldn't tell me what the EU was, than LEAVE voters who couldn't!!!

I see the mumsnet brexit bingo is in full swing; he must be xenophobic, racist, thick, bigoted, uneducated, and low-class, along with the 'why are you with this man, I couldn't be with that,' rhetoric that often pops up on threads like this.

It really is quite fucking tedious. These remainers who think they know it all, and they need to educate the thick leavers, and they and their 17.2 million votes mean nothing.

All the bizarre rallies and petitions are quite hilarious. They actually think they can change the outcome.

And they call 'leavers' THICK.

PMSL!

I've just to meet a remain who can put together a coherent argument for their vote, other than fear of what would happen if we left

The thing is, even if that were true, that's a fair enough reason - particularly when experts in their given field are articulating very well what is likely to happen. The simple fact is, you wanted change, the onus is on you to explain the impetus for change - particularly when you are stripping the whole UK population of the rights they currently have via EU membership. You can't expect us to just shrug and say "oh fair enough, you went with your gut". Such massive turmoil requires decision making based on more than a hunch.

Talk about something else.
Even if he tells you why he vote leave you're not going to change his mind.

There's a reason why people used to avoid discussing politics (and religion).

Abusive lol. Sorry but read a few threads on here to work our abuse. It’s insulting to liken a political debate to ‘abuse’.

My DH voted leave as well, without a solid reason. He can’t articulate why either. He admits now he would vote remain (I did). Although I think his reason for switching is largely down to one of customers moving offshore almost as soon as the vote was completed.

I have an aunt and uncle who vote for opposite political party's every time. My mother is religious and also voted remain, my father is an atheist and voted leave.. They just respect each other's views and don't let it bother them🤷🏻‍♀️
why can't you do the same op? You are married to him, you don't own the thoughts in his head.

My dp gave pretty much the same explanation. I didn't even ask why he just told me. And that was the end of it, he doesn't have to explain further.

Hes given you his reason. You either accept it or you don't, and if you don't then that's your issue, not his.

Once people have made a decision, they normally prefer to stick with their decision. They tend to see evidence that supports them and discount evidence that doesn't. It can be painful to change your mind about something. You may feel that you are a traitor, two faced or a fool.

The qualities of being decisive and sticking to your decisions are highly regarded. Changing your mind is seen as weak. It is not surprising that he doesn't want to feel like this.

If you want to influence a decision - it is always better to offer evidence before the decision is made. After someone has made their choice, it is much harder because they are committed to that choice.

And I was about to post that asking MN for advice on this thorny topic is not a good idea due to echo chamber effects!

From the leavers I have spoken to it seems to me that there was a desire to hark back to a more emotionally comfortable time when Britain (poss English)had a purpose on the international stage and therefore being British (English) was socially desirable and of high status even if the individual was of lower status at home. Having to work co- operatively with other nations to get desired results at the same time as personal status on a home platform has been eroded through the closure of traditional industries (mining, manufacturing, fisheries, farming) means that large numbers of people have had both their own status diminished and their assumed international status diminished through no fault of their own. Quite rightly they want to lash out and blame some one. Because the mainstream media is controlled by the people reducing the individuals status on the home stage it was easy for the blame to pointed at the EU - the others, without challenge.

In effect Brexit is the result of the crystallisation of a false / misremembered narrative of being high status due to the colour of a passport and luck of birthright. This is why the language is pugilistic, binary and emotional. It appeals to the base need to be loved and held in regard and shuts off nuance and thought for others.

I agree with the posters saying that a lot of remain voters have never been able to articulate why they voted remain

This has been done several times on MN. Post a thread asking remain voters why they want to remain. You will soon get a thread filled with (mostly) articulate, sound arguments and many will be fully referenced.

It is a constant point of contention on the Brexit threads that leavers can not come up with three good reasons for their vote. Lots of rhetoric but no reasons.

The issue here is that you are convinced you are right and that he is 100% wrong. People voted the way they voted for many reasons, people shouldn't have to justify themselves to anyone else.

I have friends and family that voted both leave and remain. Doesn't affect our relationships at all. I respect that they made a choice, just as I don't judge them if they vote for a different political party than I do.

Sounds like you are angry about Brexit and want to take that out on your DH. I suggest you find another outlet.

The worst thing the government did was to give the people a chance to vote on it. The vast majority of us don’t know the ins and outs of what we were voting for. We don’t fully understand it, yet we were expected to make a decision.

Most of the “leavers” on my Facebook are middle aged men who have never shown an interest in politics until now. I suspect once “brexit” is over they’ll go back to sharing memes about how immigration is terrible.

Exactly what @cushioncovers said, people should respect their partners wishes and choices and beliefs. And if you can't, then frankly, you shouldn't be together.

Some remainers (not all) sound like members of a cult now.

So your husband is not allowed to vote the way he chooses without being answerable to you? Ridiculous. You have no right to be angry.

The OP is angry because her DH can't put forward a logical argument.

You can agree to disagree if you can respect the argument and the though behind it. When there is no thought, logic or sense just mumbling about 'sovereignty' and 'freedom' there is nothing to debate with. There is no point of view to respect.

Most people who voted in the referendum don’t have the foggiest partially because it’s avtually impossible to know the full extent that EU membership has affected the UK and what will be the result of leaving. The reason why the remain position doesn’t seem woolly because it is a vote to maintain the status quo but most people don’t really understand the status quo. We can see obviously what it means in practice but the mechanisms that have created the UK we live in are beyond most people. It’s very difficult for people to understand the opportunity cost of our current position and even harder to understand what that means in practice. This is particularly evident by the generational split with young people who have grown up in the EU being the group that supports staying most strongly. Then there is the short sightedness of the vote. Very few people seem to have taken into account the effects of slowbalisation, economic problems within the EU, the rise of economies in the Asia Pacific region, the risks associated with mounting debt in developing countries like India and China that Britain has been covering as trading partners, the timing of brexit to coincide with what should be the next period of recession, the risk that trumps policies will trigger another global recession etc. It’s unlikely that you understand the situation much better than your husband. Your emotive reaction strongly suggests that you have voted just as irrationally as he has.

Leaving the EU will certainly mean change. So the OP's husband is right. However, it is unlikely to mean a change for the better in the short or medium term.

I tend to assume that Leave voters want to 'change back' to a different world. One that doesn't involve a global economy or seasonal migrant workers or being part of a European trading bloc. But I don't think this different world - which often involves vague Imperial fantasies about Britannia ruling the waves - is in any way achievable in the 21st century. Even if it was desirable..

@BigFatGiant

Fucking.

BRILLIANT.

post.

My DH is a Conservative (despite working partly in the NHS.) From a very MC background.
I'm a Labour supporter and from a working class family.

We differ on lots of things but I would never fall out with someone over their politics. After the Ref I remember people who said they weren't speaking to family members/friends etc who had voted differently to them. I found this almost unbelievable.

People don't need to justify what they opted for in 2016 or in any election if its a valid choice on the ballot slip.

ffs so people arfe going to go round blaming leavers for everything thats wrong in their lives

Many leavers seem to be blaming Europe for decisions made by our domestic government so yeah, why not blame them for the shitstorm to come?