DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

In truth, I doubt that you can't name one area in which being in or out of the EU will make the slightest difference

International Security
Safety of Medicines
Food Standards
Food Price and Availability
Trade Agreements
Transport
Higher Education
Environmental Protection

That's off the top of my head. I think most of us will be affected by that lot.

@plurabelle

none of those will be affected whether we are in or out. The US does OK without being in the EU. It's just a matter of the UK acting responsibly. We could be better, the same or worse. We are already different in many areas. eg Transport. We don't have toll roads. We have different speed limits.

We didn't even adopt the Euro. Our leaders were not confident enough to sign us up for the Euro. Now I do believe that if we think we should be in the EU, we ought to have the Euro.

@belerus

And if it's true that being in or out of the EU won't make the slightest difference to our day to day lives, you do have to wonder why we've spent the last three years arguing about it, wasting parliamentary time and billions of pounds that would have been spent on solving the problems which people claim are mainly the fault of the EU.

Well that's recalcitrant MPs who are seeking to disregard the expressed will of the people.

It's the same reason we won't have a vote on the death penalty, because they wouldn't enforce that either.

none of those will be affected whether we are in or out.

You're either spectacularly ill-informed, or have a very poor understanding of how society works. Possibly both.

The question was terribly framed because it wasn’t a choice between two well articulated alternatives. We have no idea if people who voted leave preferred no deal or something akin to EEA membership.

Countries do clamour to join the EU. Obviously the more geographically distant a country is the less likely they are to gain.

gth1234
eg Transport. We don't have toll roads.
Bless
you try going up the M6 toll without paying

Emulating the US in food safety, health care, education and the environment are not good goals
there is a reason the EU refuses to allow shitty American food into the system
but we are about to be at the mercy of the likes of JRM

@TaMereAPoilDevantPrisu

Re your first paragraph.

Thanks for answering Gth. When I say "badly framed" I was thinking above all about arguments about who was allowed to vote and the fact that it was a simple majority vote for such a complex and divisive issue. I'm also thinking about the allegations of corruption (Russian financing etc). Does that worry you or do you think such claims hold no water?

Reply. How else do you have vote. The MPS voted by a 4 vote majority not to allow a no-deal exit. Let's re-run that until they vote the other way. Why not go back to enfranchising property owners only. Why one man, one vote at all? I don't think Russian anything affected my ability to vote leave. Russian financing has clearly affected our political and economic system in the past by suborning labour politicians and TU officials. That's why our manufacturing base was destroyed in the 1950s through to the 1970's and beyond. If Russian influence continues to have any effect, it's still to skew the country to the left. Why would they try to influence against the left?

@talikinpaece

I bow out here. We do not have a motorway system predicated on private enterprise roads, and paying for the privilege of using them. We have a few toll roads and bridges. I have never used the M6 toll.

Clearly you are of the USA=Great Satan persuasion. To use the Monty Python approach, the automatic repudiation of everything American shows you do not have a sensible argument.

Thanks again. It's good to get some response on these points, even though I disagree with you heartily

How else could they have framed it? They could have chosen to let all British citizens vote, regardless of where they lived. They could have made it legally binding rather than advisory. They could have made it so that a two-thirds majority was required, or any other number they liked.

It wasn't one man, one vote BTW. I wasn't allowed to vote, nor were lots of other British people.

ght1234
Clearly you are of the USA=Great Satan persuasion.
I was born there. I have a blue passport with an eagle on it.
I love the place - but I want to live in the EU

what are you going to say to my kids about the impact Brexit is having on them ?

Ght1234. You may not have noticed but USA is a HUGE federation, not dissimilar to the loose federation of the EU which gives Brits the quibbles and makes us want to run away snivelling about being 'taken over by furriners'. Sigh.

I am your DH. I voted leave at the last minute. Literally. I was in the booth with my pen in hand and I could have gone either way. If I am honest, I had reasons I could to remain and reasons to leave. I am not trying to minimise this as I now regret-voting leave. I may however have regretted voting either way as I think leaving or remaining is not without problems. I am worried about the Lisbon Treaty. I don’t want a single currency and affected by what happened to Greece. I don’t like being dictated to by Germany and paying out so much to the EU. But I can see remaining has benefits and is probably the safer option. I do feel the promises made at the time were confusing and turned out to be lies on the whole. I am embarrassed to say my vote wasn’t placed being fully aware of the impact and implications it could bring. I wonder if your DH is also feeling similar and to admit it would be to admit that he didn’t understand and that wood make him feel stupid. It may not be the case but backtracking and admitting you may have been wrong is a hard thing for some. Having said that I would not vote leave in a second vote whereas your DH said he would.

Why are people worried about the uk joining the euro? We already ruled that out under New Labour unless I’m having amnesia.
Also the Lisbon Treaty already is in force?? And gives the UK more voting power than before.

People need to do some proper research about these things and, as I was taught in GCSE history, read more than one source!

iggly

Things change, people can read everything out there but its no help if a new government does something different

Things change, people can read everything out there but its no help if a new government does something different

Yes that applies to everything. What is your point?

But to based a leave vote on something that isn’t currently going to happen is nonsense.

We aren’t joining the EU, we have an opt out, there are no plans for a federal army or whatever nonsense people spout. I could go on.

But hey, let’s fuck up the economy and let our public services suffer because people are scared about something which is an incredibly vanishing likelihood of happening

Sounds like Project Fear to me.

joining the Euro!

iggly

Sorry i thought you were asking a question what with the question mark

I haven't made any mention of the fors and aginst the euro

You said ' why are people worried' and im telling you that things change and people are worried it might change and we will be forced into something they dont want

Don't worry. In about 15-20 years we'll be begging to rejoin the EU, and when they finally agree, then we'll be obliged to adopt the euro as a condition of joining.

Thats what i think jamie

IF we rejoin there will obviously be conditions

There will probably be a referendum. All the young folk will vote join, and I, as an old fogey, will vote against because I can remember all this.

Workers rights might be systematically dismantled but someone's carpet will be clean.

Can you explain why leaving the EU will automatically lead to an erosion of workers’ rights? How do you actually know this?

Dongdingdong
Can you explain why leaving the EU will automatically lead to an erosion of workers’ rights? How do you actually know this?
Because JRM and Raab and co have explicitly said that they want a no red tape Singapore style economy.

Red tape is better known as employment law and environmental law and food safety law and animal welfare law

“Red tape is better known as employment law and environmental law and food safety law and animal welfare law”

This. So much this.

I have tried to explain why. If you want to increase standards you do it by making mutual commitments. Otherwise the competing pressures to increase exports/compete with imports encourages a race to the bottom. That, combined with the fact that the UK is generally less inclined towards a high level of employment protection than much of Europe, means we are likely to see significant erosion of employment rights. Which might suit you if you own a factory. I don't see how it benefits the rest of us.

I am worried about the Lisbon Treaty

It's been in force for 10 years so why are you worried about it? Or do you mean that 2020 bollocks internet hoax that has done the rounds?