DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

The real trouble is that Remain evidence is there, everyone can talk about Remain because it has been polished into some sort of Good and Glorious thing. It 'rightness' has become enshrined in some places.To counter anyt of its arguments you have to wade through personal insults and unapologetic bile.

Leave evidence is also there, but you cannot talk about it because it has been fully demonised. The language used about it and those who voted it is belittling, at least, and quite dehumanising. Evidence for it is dismissed with a casual "you can't know that" or "that's just rhetoric" etc etc

You only have to flick through any one of the Brexit threads to see that trend.

Of course in Pro Brexit forums that trend is reversed. It is just that Mumsnet seems to have a majority of Remain voters willing to post.

The truth hasn't changed. Nobody was told the truth, nobody knows how good remaining would be long term nor how good Leaving would be. But our politicians have fucked up very badly and seem to be intent on continuing to do so for may months to come!

It's taken for granted here that Leavers simply must regret their vote and I do wonder, looking at the increasing unrest throughout Europe, whether there will be a moment when even the most fervent Remainer has doubts based on that wider reality.

Whoops forgot to quote the post.

@BigFatGiant

Most people who voted in the referendum don’t have the foggiest partially because it’s avtually impossible to know the full extent that EU membership has affected the UK and what will be the result of leaving. The reason why the remain position doesn’t seem woolly because it is a vote to maintain the status quo but most people don’t really understand the status quo.

We can see obviously what it means in practice but the mechanisms that have created the UK we live in are beyond most people. It’s very difficult for people to understand the opportunity cost of our current position and even harder to understand what that means in practice. This is particularly evident by the generational split with young people who have grown up in the EU being the group that supports staying most strongly. Then there is the short sightedness of the vote.

Very few people seem to have taken into account the effects of slowbalisation, economic problems within the EU, the rise of economies in the Asia Pacific region, the risks associated with mounting debt in developing countries like India and China that Britain has been covering as trading partners, the timing of brexit to coincide with what should be the next period of recession, the risk that trumps policies will trigger another global recession etc. It’s unlikely that you understand the situation much better than your husband. Your emotive reaction strongly suggests that you have voted just as irrationally as he has.

Fucking.

BRILLIANT.

Post!

Also worth remembering that there wasn’t actually a correct way to vote. You seem to think that you voted right and he voted wrong but really it’s such a complicated matter that there are many compelling reasons to vote either way. Unless you are voting on principle (in which case your own personal moral inclinations are the guide) there is no correct vote per se.

”he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be. It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.”

This is so common. It’s wrong that this felt to people like the only avenue available to them to express their frustration and desire for change. Because the result is that a certain (but result-affecting) proportion of Leave voters weren’t actually voting for something they specifically and logically wanted. All the Leave voters I know have said now they have more information about what the impact of leave actually will be, they would vote Remain if they had another chance.

Op he is entitled to vote whichever way he wants without having to justify himself to you. Some of tge bollocks I am hearing to describe leave voters, by Remainers just tells me the type of person they are. Leave voters tend to keep their opinions to themselves as they don't want to be ripped apart by Remainers who don't want to listen to any arguments but their own. Just put their hands on their ears and try to block it out.

I wouldn't want to live with anyone who got angry over me voicing my opinion at home. Home should be a living, supportive and safe environment.
Getting angry over a difference in opinion is unkind and disrespectful at best but can also be abusive if your husband feels that he is unable to voice his views or else there will be repercussions. The whole thing is your problem, not his. Whether your behaviour is abusive or not depends on how your husband feels about it, not you.

there wasent a right or wrong way to vote, those who voted remain tend to think they are right and speak for the majority of us.

*loving not living...

BigFatGiant - that's an excellent post.

Oh for goodness sake everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if a leaver doesn’t wish to explain with a remainer as to why they would still vote leave then so be it, we are all entitled to our own opinions it just seems the remainers are rather more vocal on that front at the moment.

All my friends who voted out (100%) cited change as the reason. Why I asked why you want to change, they didn’t know. This is the danger of giving people choices without the full facts.

Can you just not reconcile the fact that you are two individual people with individual ideas? I don't see the problem.really I don;t.He doesn;t have to explain anything to you nor you to him if there is mutual respect that decisions taken for anything is a personal choice that doesn;t impact on the quality of your life together.Focus on family life and enjoy each other..Brexit or lack of it who knows anymore will come and go regardless and be replaced my many other trials and tribulations along the way...refocussing on what is vital to your family happiness is the way forward.

Completely agree @BigFatGiant

I think the reason (some) remainers are so vitriolic and spiteful and spit out venomous nasty remarks (all leavers are thick, bigoted, racist etc,) is because they are really angry at leaving, and quite scared, so they are lashing out.

And as I said, some of them are coming across like members of a cult; berating and mocking people who don't think like them, putting them down, dismissing anything they say, and only listening to their own point of view, and shutting down any argument with insults and derogatory comments.

I have heard some remainers (on here) say 'I have yet to meet a leaver who is intelligent and articulate.' Yet, I have met MORE intelligent and articulate leave supporters than remain ones. I have met some intelligent remainers, but more intelligent leavers. And as I said, some remainers I have encountered didn't even know what the EU was when they voted to remain.

someone who claimed over half the population of the UK voted for Brexit. I pointed out that if he thought that 17 million was half of 66 million then he should go back to school.

They are IMO either not very intelligent and incapable of critical thinking.

Literally speaking, his words are not correct; however, it's splitting hairs to pull him up on this as the spirit of what he's saying IS correct.

Every adult (with a very few exceptions) had the vote. Those who chose not to use their vote, for whatever reason - and who had every right to make this decision - were voluntarily excluding themselves from the electorate on this occasion and neutralising the potential of the vote that they would have been eligible to have.

They were communicating that they didn't know and/or care one way or the other and thus were delegating the choice to those who DID want to have a say; meaning that the effective electorate was significantly reduced to the number who DID decide to use their votes.

A small majority of the effective electorate (i.e. those from the eligible pool who self-selected and chose to participate and state an opinion) DID vote to leave.

Therefore, he was technically wrong to claim that half of the population voted to leave, but it would not be wrong to say that the majority electorate decision was to leave.

Don't forget that those who decided not to vote, and therefore didn't vote for Brexit, also didn't vote to remain.

Also, bearing in mind the nasty, arrogant sweeping ageist proclamations that have been widely made - i.e. that all of the elderly voted to leave because they're supposedly selfish, stupid, ill-informed, racist, bigoted, whatever; the elderly are statistically far more likely to be in the group of those who might have wanted to vote but were unable to do so owing to disability or infirmity preventing them from getting to the poll booth - and are less likely to be online to have easily and confidently explored alternative voting options.

Also, it's ignored or brushed aside as of no consequence, but let's not forget the fact that only people aged over 60 have adult experience of both being IN and OUT of the EU/EEC/Common Market/proposed USE.

I voted leave. I am not racist and I consider myself quite bright (have a masters degree). All those remainers on here who throw out those accusations any time anyone disagrees seem to be the thick ones! And no I won’t be justifying my vote or opinion to a bunch of judgey, pig headed people

Dh and I voted differently. I don’t feel I need to reconcile myself with how he voted, w en though I disagree with his reasoning, and his vote. He doesn’t brow beat me about my vote either. He, and I are entitled to out opinions, and to cast a vote however we want to. I find it bizarre op that you feel so wretched about it. It’s s difference of opinion, no more, no less.

I am in the same boat with my parents who voted leave. I can’t begjn to imagine having a partner who voted leave when you voted remain. I still find myself incredibly angry at my parents who also can’t intelkigently articulated why they voted leave (beyond being telegraph readers!).

Not everyone is able to argue aggressivly or have the confidence to put their point accross, does not make them a racist xenophobic bigot, very insulting. I was stating my argument with a remainer friend of mine, and she bust into tears, and was crying that there will be another holocaust like there was over 70 years ago. I was stumped, same with another remain friend who virtually jumped on me. I just keep it to myself. Like the saying goes: Opinions are like aresholes, everybody has them, we don't all want to see it!

I voted remain, DP leave and our situation is similar to yours BUT I really don’t give it much thought at all.

@Aeroflotgirl

Op he is entitled to vote whichever way he wants without having to justify himself to you. Some of the bollocks I am hearing to describe leave voters, by Remainers just tells me the type of person they are. Leave voters tend to keep their opinions to themselves as they don't want to be ripped apart by Remainers who don't want to listen to any arguments but their own. Just put their hands on their ears and try to block it out.

Agree 100% with this.

The worst thing the government did was to give the people a chance to vote on it.

It wasn't great that they ran a programme of austerity for the poor alongside tax cuts for the rich , and then blamed the lack of resources on 'others ' aka immigrants ...

and on the EU.

user148 your parents should not have to justify to you, they are grown adults, I have seen your attitude in many remainers, and it is unacceptable. Why vote, if there is a 'right way' then!

I voted Remain OP but your thread really annoys me as does your reasoning and outrageous entitlement at being angry with your husband.

This thread has become goady as they all do - calling people 'not very bright'. I can't imagine what sort of person levies that at people they don't know? Perhaps they themselves are a bit lacking? Either way, it's exactly the same sort of attitude that the government has, blinkered and 'I'm right'.

Separate your politics and treat your husband the way you yourself would want to be treated.

Lots of people voting for 'change' are actually voting against the impacts of globalisation , failing to realise that our best defence is to join with others to maintain standards and avoid the race to the bottom.

Windows
You can agree to disagree if you can respect the argument and the though behind it. When there is no thought, logic or sense just mumbling about 'sovereignty' and 'freedom' there is nothing to debate with. There is no point of view to respect.
This ^

Why am i being accused of being a troll?
Because i name-changed before starting this as I've been on MN long enough to know people AS and link up other parts of my life.
Report me if you are concerned and MN can confirm i am genuine.
I thought i was angry before starting this thread, but i am seeing a glimpse into other peoples anger on the subject and i realise i am not i their league
Thank you to those posters who have read my OP and offered insights that can help me work through my feelings.