DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

Abusive? Pshaw!

Incidentally, screaming 'I am being bullied' is a great way of shutting down debate and putting yourself automatically in the right. I am not suggesting it's OP's DP who was doing this.

I know three Leavers well enough to know why they voted.

One, degree educated, did it to create opportunities for her DS (who has subsequently lost his job as the company folded due to increasingly unaffordable import costs....)

One, degree educated, did it for 'a change'

One cannot articulate why, but doesn't want a No Deal Brexit.

I, however, could fill this page for reasons to Remain!

For me, the biggest problem with expecting people to respect the vote of Leavers like the three I know is that that decision is going to make all of us poorer. It has already unleashed a nasty under-belly of hate; it is already costing jobs, there'll certainly be 'change'.

Trouble is, that'll be unleashed upon all of us, not just Leavers.

I do find it hard to respect the critical thinking skills that caused this.

I know three people who very vocally voted Leave.

One is measured, clearly well thought out. Two are racist and quite frankly scarily stupid.

They’re of course all three at liberty to vote how they wish, just as I am at liberty to cut people who hold views massively and offensively at odds with my own out of my life.

Thing is, if whoever was in charge of the country had said, after the vote: we understand the anger and we are going to fix things by dumping austerity, increasing the top rate of tax, funding more schools, hospitals and social housing, then all but the most determined racist wingnuts would have settled down again. Remember that the referendum was, in legal terms, advisory. Ever since the start of the campaign, it's been all about setting the general public against each other, blaming migrants and the disabled and 'scroungers' for the misery that has been inflicted on them by greedy corporations and bent politicians following a deranged and cruel ideology of squeezing the poor to benefit the rich.

People can vote how they want. No one is saying they can't so why are people insisting on pointing this out?

The OP is dismayed that on such a crucial decision that will have serious implications for decades her DH can not articulate a decent argument.

Debate is normal and healthy, it is vital for democracy. Simply coming to a decision with no arguments to back up your decision and leaving it there is no nurturing democracy.

Opposition is vital for democracy. Taking a supine the decision is made let's just lie back and wait attitude is very, very dangerous.

Passivity kills democracy.

I was talking to a friend I normally respect a few weeks ago and voicing concerns about the general chaos and uncertainty. To my astonishment, he came out with the Millennium bug argument - the one that goes "Everyone worried about that but it turned out to be fine". He couldn't answer when I asked how they were comparable, given that with the Millennium Bug we knew exactly what the problem was a long, long way in advance and a lot of people worked bloody hard to fix it, whereas we had no idea what was going to happen with Brexit so it is impossible to work to prepare. He then slid off onto unelected foreigners telling us what to do, but again could not answer when I asked what the thought the European elections are all about. At that point we mutually agreed to move away from the subject before it all got too contentious. I was and am really sad that I simply can no longer respect him in the same way, as I never thought he could be that dim.

Hi, hello you remainers way up there on the moral high ground. Does the sun shine all day and birds sing to celebrate your righteousness, your superiority and general level of smartness.

Blimey, I think its wonderful that you remainers know the motivations behind the voting decision of every leaver. What,every single one? All 17 million voters? Your level of understanding of the leave voter is astounding. Although I'm not convinced many leave voters would admit to it bearing the mind the level of vitriol hurled in their direction.

How is it that all leavers can only spout rubbish about sovereignty and migration yet all remainers some how don't have to justify why they voted the way they did. The fact that more than half of the votes cast expressed some doubt at our future with the EU suggests an element of dissatisfaction with the status quo. And as far as I am aware, no one tests your level of knowledge and understanding of the voting choices before you put your cross on the paper.

Whatever the outcome of this sorry state of affairs, we all have to rub along together. Whether we leave or not, I'm almost certain that the sky wont fall in.

jacques I agree (about cutting such people out of your life) but the problem is we won't be able to cut the effects of their stupid decision out of our lives.

All those who feel no animosity towards people they know who voted Leave might not feel so sanguine when queuing for bread, let alone when discovering they can't get insulin.

In my experience on here and elsewhere, the bullying/childish/abusive behaviour tends to be from the Leave camp. Remainers are frustrated (and rightfully so, who can deny the utter shitshow we're in) but generally remain respectful.

OP I sympathise. DH and I voted the same way and I'm so relieved we did. But my ex never voted, 'didn't see the point' even though he'd rant about the Tories. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't vote in this referendum. I found his attitude very hard to deal with. We just didn't talk about politics but then it became very much the elephant in the room.

Not all those who voted Leave are racist, in fact, not everyone who voted leave, are white anglo saxon btw!

I didn't vote. There I have said it, I have no right to an opinion now I suppose. I am average intelligence I think, held down a good job, but I had no idea which way to vote. I didn't know enough about the consequences of remain/leave anymore than anyone else did really.

So, on voting day, I still didn't know and because I didn't want to vote for something I didn't understand, I chose not to vote.

It was suggested to me afterwards that if I didn't know then I should have just voted remain to keep things the same. Sadly, what stopped me from doing this was the behaviour of some of the remain camp. The arrogant insistence that they, and only they, know best and know exactly what will happen if we leave. It felt very bullying.

I still don't know what would be best for the country in the long run, but if I had known what the last 2 years of speculation would be like I would have voted remain just to not have had all the hassle.

Ultimately though, no-one has to explain their beliefs and vote to anyone. If the remain camp had toned down their behaviour I think the outcome could have been different.

Op, it really isn’t worth falling out with your DH over his leave vote. You are both entitled to vote however you want and your anger is completely misplaced. The fault lies with the politicians who allowed the Brexit vote in the first place. If they didn’t want the UK to leave the EU they shouldn’t have held a referendum about it.

Your husband’s views are just as valid as yours, even if he can’t articulate them clearly. I’m guessing he could sense your anger and frustration during your discussion so wanted to avoid further questioning. Be honest, do you think you were bullying him or humiliated him because of his lack of explanation about his views?

Whatever the outcome of this sorry state of affairs, we all have to rub along together

Indeed so why are the first two paragraphs of your post full of sarcasm and derision for Remainers?

I think one of the biggest problems with this whole shit show is that most of the population myself included now identifies as leaver or remainer, not just humans beings with different ideologies and to be honest I don't know how we are going to escape this, I can't see us ever being anything else not in the near future anyway. OP you need to make peace with you dh's differing view for the sake of your mental health.

Miljah Oh for goodness sakes. I will not be holding them responsible anymore than I would hold any other member of the public responsible for factors that result in outcomes that weren't planned.

I have medication every month. I don't know if it will still be available after Brexit - and nor do you. If mine isn't forthcoming after Brexit then I will probably rail a bit - at the politicians, not the voters.

I wonder how many of the Remainers voted for the Tories, hmm? Quite a few I'll wager. It's your fault then. How do you like those apples?

“Most leavers are now staying quiet, and waiting for the day when we are eventually free of the EU shackles.

Can't come soon enough tbh.”

This is what a lot of leavers say. If you ask them “What shackles?” they can’t tell you.

I think my problem is that I can understand and sympathise with all the irrational reasons for voting leave. And I can understand the old school socialist reasons for not having voted to join in the first place. And I can see that there was need for reform. But I can’t see any logical, hard headed reasons for voting leave from the place where we were at the time of the vote. I don’t see how voting remain wasn’t at least the “least worst” option.

I voted remain my OH voted leave so we just cancelled out each others vote and on the scale of things it would not have made a difference to the final vote in our area. That's how I live with it, oh and the fact I can't ask him to justify it, just as he can't ask me.

He has given some reasons for voting leave, however he is entitled to vote as he wishes. And although we have had discussions the truth of it is we were both out of our depth of understanding the fuller picture, and still are, actually.

I mean does anyone know yet?

Windows, Why then are you impotently posting on a chatboard instead of doing something if you feel the way you do? Or are you sitting back and waiting for others to do it all for you to benefit from?

Not very productive, is it?

Lyingwitch umm I didn't vote for the Tory government and I voted remain. The majority of those I know who voted remain are anti Tory (although I live in Scotland so not surprising).

We know my MIL and FIL voted leave. Unfortunately for us, we also know it was because at heart they are pretty racist.

Not so you would ever notice in polite conversation, but they are.

MIL was hearkening back to a mythical time she reads about in the Daily Telegraph when Britain was a great power and something to do with Churchill.

Given my DM is non-UK, this has all been very hurtful and MIL has said some very hurtful and ignorant things about my DM's right to remain, and the Windrush scandal.

We now opt never to speak of it.

lyingwitch I will entirely be holding responsible those who mindlessly bring this sh*t storm about, as will you once the reality hits.

I guaranteed on June 24th 2016 that nothing terrible that happens as a result of Brexit will ever be 'owned' by those who voted for it, and so it has come to pass.

I really like ReanimatedSGB's post ^^

I'd be furious with him. Brexit will likely have disastrous economic consequences for the UK, including your family.

If his well thought through reasons for leaving the EU outweigh that he should be able to clearly articulate them.

I'm genuinely not sure I could be in a relationship with a leave voter. You might have no obligation to justify your vote to strangers on the internet, but your spouse is a different matter.

The worrying thing, on either side of the equation, is the disclaimers that voting should be for any reason the voter sees fit, and that voting in ignorance is a legitimate stance. I respectfully disagree. At the very least, we should be able to articulate to ourselves (even if we choose not to share that process with others) why we came to hold the views we hold.

The problem is that with Brexit, it's been impossible to do so as none of us knew what we were voting for. The campaigns were disingenuous, sold on the basis of fearmongering, downright lies, and not least rugsweeping the very real implications of how the process could be executed logistically. And we're seeing the consequences of this unfolding in Parliament right now.

The demographic, practicalities and real implications of Brexit were not apparent to the voting populous in 2016. They're clearer now. Which is why the whole notion that questioning these issues is in any way an affront to democracy is quite bizarre. Surely it's the opposite, and what we are seeing is democracy in action?

Some leavers object to the lack of democracy vested in Brussels as opposed to the member states. As a reason for voting leave I fully 'get' this, and it's a concern I share. The question I have, to which no 'leaver' can provide a clear answer, is about removing the checks and balances which prevent our own ruling elite from acting with complete impunity. Who can honestly say they trust our politicians? And why would leavers object so strenuously to a lack of EU democratic accountability, but have no issue when said lack of accountability emanates from within our own borders?

What you mean, Miljah, is that you - and countless others - will be endless blethering on a chatboard, maybe this one, wanting to vent your spleens.

I promise you that I won't be joining in and you absolutely do not speak for me. Got it?